trying to understand these "hot" loads...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I'm wanting to do a "warm" 45 Colt load fo my Contender, for deer hunting...

are some powders safer to over charge than others ( I know that's a generic type of question ), but I'm seeing some huge over charges for hot loads that forum members have shared...

I currently load out of mostly the Hornady, Speer, Accurate, & Sierra manuals

1st off, I guess I believed th publishers of these manuals, when they tell me that 45 Colt brass is not as thick / tough as "magnum" brass ( 44 magnum or 454 Casull )... I have not sectioned one of each to look for thickness differences, & temper the fact that there could be older brass that is weaker than some new manufacture brass...

... so I guess IMO, it might be ok to go "slightly" over the published data for a hot load, but again IMO, only a very slight percentage over the +P listings in these manuals

some of the most abused reciepes I've seen involvd H-110 & W-296 with hot load reciepes for H-110 going as much as 24.5% over published maximums, & W-296 going as much as 14.8% over published maximums

those 2 powders seem more "abused" than most others with 4227 being the next closest with only about 2% over charges being listed...

so are those powders "safer" to over charge, or are they just used more, so they get abused more ???

[Sam06]

I think the reason they are abused is a combo of both. They are used very much by most people and they are are a more forgiving powder. You abuse red dot and you will be getting fited for a hook.

I have both loadbooks for T/C contenders. What bullet powder combo are you looking at using? I would think that you could sub 45 Win Mag data for 45 LC data in the T/C but the book says no. There is only a 2gr diff from a 240gr load with H110 between the LC and the Win Mag

I think I would start my load developement at the top end of the scale using H110, Win 296, 2400 and maybe 4227. Looking at the data. I like to look at the CUP also, all these powders are under 30,000CUP with max loads and will push a 300gr bullet over 1200fps. That is moving out of a 10" barrel.

I think they held the 45 Colt's CUP down to 30,000 so people would not load it in a RH or some other revolver. The T/C will take 40,000 so I would start big. I know this a little convoluted but I am typing and thumbing through 3reloading books...

[WESHOOT2]

First, modern 45 Colt cases are as strong as any other modern case of any chambering, so remove that concern utterly.
Not valid.

Next, since SAAMI specifications are based on lowest-denominator guns, consider advances in firearms metallurgy and construction.

Then you might notice certain data is labeled "For Ruger and T/C only" (can also include Colt Anaconda and certain other platforms).

So much development has been done, using Ruger Blackhawks and Redhawks, and occassionally T/Cs, for extreme-performance ammo, far above SAAMI "45 Colt" specifications.

As always, start low and work up slow (best possible home-brewing uses chrono-mapping, unless you have pressure gear).

H110, and W296, have shown stability when working up these "Ruger Only" loads.
New cases ONLY, sized (Federal brass cases are the absolute toughest, but Winchester is also very tough. I preferred R-P for development, because it, being just the weeist bit thinner, gave me more readily read signs earlier).
Starline also gets honorable mention.

I pick ONE primer lot; I normally picked Federal. With H110 and W296 I use Magnum; often I use Magnum for less-than loads, too.

In my 'studies' I found H110 could give a bit more velocity, and W296 might be ever-so-slightly more accurate; W296 gave more consistent ballistics in varying test environments.
My commercial loads used more W296 than H110.

Crimp is critical; use the Redding Profile Crimp Die; use 'plenty', and vary and test (for accuracy and consistent ballistics).

Hodgdon Manual #26 offers good data.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

my "warm 45 Colt loads" thread has the specifics...

but I already have

AA #9, IMR 4227, H-110, W-296, & Blue Dot on hand ( several others, but these I have reciepes for already )

SAM... I'd be interested in hearing the recommended loadings out of the Contender book for the 250 grain XTP's

I know magnum primers can effect cartridge pressures differently than standard primers ( I assume a faster burn, raised / quicker pressure spike "normally" ??? ), yet some of the bigger charges ( according to forum members comments I've read ) of a couple of the powders left a lot of unburned powder & required a Magnum primer...

sorry for all the newbie type questions, but I have not reloaded for several years, & when I last loaded, it was mostly for cheaper practice ammo, I guess I'm "getting into it more" now...

[Sam06]

Here they are out of the Loadbook for T/C Vol2 dated APR 2004:



Start gr/Vel fps/Max Gr/Vel fps-who suggested it


H110
25.7/1398/28.0/1532- Hodgen
Horny has no load for H110
21.7/1150/23.7/1350- serria for their 240gr bullet


W296
Hornaday has no loads
winchester has no powder loads for 296 with a 240gr bullet only 260gr bullets
19.0/1096/20.5/1183- This is from Speer for their 260gr
21.4/1200/25.0/1350- this is from Serria for their 240gr



H4227
20.0/1169/26.0/1413-Hodgen loads
23.0/1200/26.3/1400- Hornady bullet loads
24.0/1056/25.0/1119- Nosler(250gr bullet) and its IMR 4227 tested!

2400(My fav powder)
20.4/1200/23.9/1450-Honady loads
19.0/1141/20.5/1248- Alliant powder
18.2/1000/20.0/1200- Serria Bullets for their 240gr
19.0/1043/20.0/1103- Nosler(250gr bullet) and 2400 gets the *most accurate tested*

Winchester W296 with a 260gr bullet:
25.0/1349/26.6/1421

Accuracy load from Serria= BlueDot 15.6gr at 1150fps
Hunting load from Serria= W296 22.6gr at 1250 FPS

Also all of the loads above were tested in a T/C with a 10" Barrel as stated in the loadbook.

Let me know if you want some more but this was a good sample taken from either good company's or the manufacturer of the components you plan to use. Hope this helps.
I just go a new T/C barrel in 223 and I am going to start loading for it soon. I got it on GB for $125 it should be here in a week. I hope to smoke some Ground hogs here in NC with it. The 30-30 does a good job on them but I have so much 223 brass it makes sense to have a barrel for the T/C in it. I am still looking for a 22 Hronet barrel.

[Sam06]

250 grainer loads coming in a sec

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BTW... I think I remember seeing a TC load book around here ( a long time ago ) I think, it being paper backed, that it got put in with all the magazines & other load artical stuff I saved ( quite a substancial amount of stuff to go though )... I guess I better get starting seeing as I plan to reload for several Contender cartridges over the winter...

[Sam06]

Here are the 250 gr loads.

Start/ Vel/ Max/ Vel- Who had it


AA#9
16.8/1150/20.6/1350-Hornady
Accurate only lists Lead bullets

2400
19.7/115020.8/1250-Hornady
Alliant is the same as the 240gr data

Blue Dot
Alliant lists only Green dot/Unique&2400
14.1/1000/16.6/1250-Serria for their 240gr bullet no 250's
Not too many list bluedot for 45 colt?

H110
No Hornady loads
No Nosler loads
You have the serria loads for their 240 gr bullet
You have the Speer loads for their 260gr bullet
25.7/1398/26.5/1455- Hodgen powder loads(Nosler bullet)

W296
No winchester powder loads, you have them for the 260Gr Bullet?
19.0/1096/20.5/1183- Speer Bullets loads 260gr
No Nosler loads
No Hornady loads only for the 300Gr XTP They are below in ()
(17.9/1050/21.7/1300)Wow!

H4227
20.5/1150/25.7/1400-Hornady
You have the nosler load but its for IMR4227
No serria for 250's
No Speer
20.0/1150/24.6/1343-Hodgen Powder with HDY XTP 250gr


That should get you thinking MWM.

[Sam06]

I got mine from Midway about 2 years ago. Its in 2 volumes and cover Contenders Only. They have all the TCU cartridges(I have a 7mm TCU) and you are correct it is a Paperback like all the Loadbooks are. Vol 1 is from like 17 Hornet to 30 Carbine and Vlo 2 is from 30 Carb to 45/70. They are a great asset when loading for the T/C. Maybe a X-Mas present from someone?? You might need to go sit on santa's lap and ask for it though, Watch for Bob the ensite guy you may get more than you wanted

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thanks & LOL...

Good eye deer... maybe Mrs. Magnum can pull that one off ( sorry about the pun ) I just added those 2 books to my Christmas wish list for the Mrs... maybe if I'm good enough ???

[Sam06]

No Hornady loads only for the 300Gr XTP They are below in ()
(17.9/1050/21.7/1300)Wow!


This is a Bad ass load! I think with some work you could make it go even faster but that looks like VERY Close to max. That would be like a flying sledgehammer.

These have some good data. I look at it when I am checking stuff out:

http://stevespages.com/451p_3_240.html

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

I hope you are having a good time in MN. Its 70 today here in NC. I was thinking of going deer hunting but I would have to take my bow as warm as it is.

[Sam06]

O yea I ment to tell you. I had a 45 Colt Ruger Bisley when they 1st came out. I was staioned in WA and we used to bait bear hunt up past Eatonville WA. Well I loaded up some 45 Colt bear stoppers with H110. I only had WLP Primer but they say they are for Magnums(Yea Right). Where I lived I could shoot in my yard and I went out back with one of my buddies to see how these shot. The 1st shot(I don't Remember the load) would have dropped a Rino, I mean BOOOOOOOOOOOM. The next shot went out of the barrel and hit the ground about 10 feet out. My buddy said I was ready for Rino or Field mice with the same load(LOL). I finally got it right and used CCI 350s but I let that old Bisley go for some other gun I just had to have. Now I shy away from H110, but that is a personel choice. I have nothing bad to say about it. I like 2400, 4227, unique, 231 and sometimes 296. I am messing around with AA#9 right now in a 44 mag. I like AA#5 in my 45acp so we will see how it goes. Take care I have to run some errands...............Sam

[Pathfinder45]

I had hang-fires with Win 296 using WLP primers also. CCI-350 primers work better for that powder. This is why I prefer AA-9 for warm loads.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I hope you are having a good time in MN. Its 70 today here in NC

you suck bud...

-5 degrees this morning when I came in for work... I'm hoping for it to warm up to 15-20 degrees this weekend to get the chance to try out those loads...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BTW... my "old buddy" / local builder / shooting mentor tells me that the H-110 is the same as 296, except it has a flash supressant added ( ex military powder ), so the loads won't put out as much muzzle flash or noise... a quieter load for hunting is a good thing... as I don't normally use hearing protection while hunting, but do all the time at the range...

[Sam06]

I was thinking of Sucking on a Bud its so warm right Now

I have heard that about H110. I think its called WC840 or 820 or somthing like that and is sold in canisters by the powderman. I was at the Hangun site reading all the arguments about Glocks, What a hoot. Some guy got bent all out of shape about what I said. I am going to toss and turn all night thinking about it(LOL). I like that 300gr load for the 45 Colt. I would think it would be a real killer.

Stay warm Dude.......Whiskey helps

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Southern Comfort... named that for a reason