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Old July 30, 2017, 11:03 PM   #1
Ben_Snow
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M&P PRO CORE Legal for IDPA SSP?

Quick Question:

Is the M&P PRO CORE Series Legal for IDPA SSP?

Found a good deal on a full frame 9L Pro Series and getting ready to purchase. Only snag is that it's the CORE model, which means the slide is cut to accept 3rd party optical sights. An adapter completely covers the cut when the iron sights are in use, so didn't think it would be an issue with SSP, but came across this snippet in the 2017 Rule Book:

8.2.1.2 SSP Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):
A. Sights may be changed to another notch and post type. Slides may not be machined to accept different style
sights
"

Can any IDPA Match Administrators or SO's provide any guidance with the interpretation of the rule? Does the rule extend to the OEM models, or only to aftermarket modifications to the slide?

Thanks !
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Old July 31, 2017, 07:44 AM   #2
g.willikers
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Rules like this one usually only matter at higher level matches.
If you are going to a local match, don't sweat it.
Doubtful if anyone will notice or care.
Only one way to find out, though.
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Old July 31, 2017, 08:42 AM   #3
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You're using iron sights correct? Isn't that identical to an M&P Pro (which is definitely legal) if you're just using the iron sights?
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Old July 31, 2017, 01:37 PM   #4
Ben_Snow
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Yes, iron sights in use

... but the rule says the slide cannot be machined for other sights. That could be interpreted as aftermarket machining or it could include OEM machining (regardless if the iron sights are in use ).

In the first interpretation the CORE model is legal in SSP, in the second in would not.

Hoping an SO or match director can chime in with a definitive answer. I agree it probably won't matter for local matches, but want to have the flexibility to use it for all matches if possible.
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Old August 2, 2017, 10:36 AM   #5
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I would interpret the "may not be machined" to refer to the sights in use.

If the gun comes from the factory machined for an optional/optical sight, and you are not using that sight, I wouldn't split hairs as MD.

What they don't want - my opinion - is someone milling the slide for a Bo-Mar or Novak and installing same, to replace the factory sight.
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Old August 3, 2017, 08:03 PM   #6
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I sure hope it is legal as my wife and I both shoot that model and I know of number of others do as well.
We both passed equipment check at the previous two state championships (either level 2 or 3, I forget).
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Old August 4, 2017, 07:59 AM   #7
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So long as the blank plate is in place Id call it SSP legal. A reasonable person could see that you couldnt toss on an optic each time you stepped up to shoot.
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Old August 4, 2017, 10:53 AM   #8
Ben_Snow
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Thanks for all the answers guys, very helpful...

Consensus is that it's not a 100% sure thing, but perhaps high enough to pass muster for all but the highest level of competition. I guess another competitor could challenge my SSP rating and force the MD's hand, but at my level I doubt if I'm much of a threat to anyone!
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Old August 4, 2017, 11:43 AM   #9
zincwarrior
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Other competitors are not inspecting your gear Especially when you are running a stock M&P Pro with a lesser sight.
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Old August 4, 2017, 02:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
high enough to pass muster for all but the highest level of competition.
The guys making the calls "at the highest levels" aren't necessarily more hip to the rules than a random SO on this forum; plenty of illegal stages and bad calls at nationals.

Either your gun is legal or it's not, and you shouldn't have to worry about the rules being enforced differently at different matches.

Contact your Area Coordinator - who may also not be hip to the rules - and have him/her get a definitive ruling from HQ.
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Old August 5, 2017, 01:34 PM   #11
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Let me get this straight, I will need to navigate up the murky idpa hierarchy, get a ruling, and then carry a printed copy for proof during matches because so's and match directors cant be trusted?

If IDPA wants to grow its organization it needs to provide clarity to its members, and standardized training to its field officials. Nothing wrong with rules, but something is wrong when paying members risk DQ, not because they are trying to cheat, but due to a lack of clear guidance in the field.

It's no wonder many shooters quit IDPA and turn to other competitive contests and organizations
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Last edited by Ben_Snow; August 6, 2017 at 12:47 AM.
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Old August 7, 2017, 10:49 AM   #12
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Risk a DQ?
I think at worst, you'd be moved to "Specialty Division" if the MD wasn't certain about which division the gun belongs in.
For a major match, you should have weeks or months to get confirmation concerning the division or divisions in which the gun is legal.

8.2.1.2 says the gun may not be "modified", and the OPs gun is stock, and has not been modified. You may very well run into someone who doesn't comprehend English especially well.

Not sure how "murky" the hierarchy is? Club Point-of-Contact - Area Coordinator - HQ. You can place any number of forums and websites in between, but that's where, like here, you get opinions of people who don't necessarily know any more than the OP.

I'm still not seeing the "many shooters quitting" that I keep hearing about?
At our club, 2017 has had the second highest attendance of any year since we started shooting in '01.
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Old August 7, 2017, 11:01 AM   #13
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The rule is not difficult. This is called borrowing trouble.
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