May 22, 2009, 12:10 PM | #76 |
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... and yet, they're the same states receiving so much Federal funding. Somehow I don't find anything remotely encouraging about hollow chest-thumping about secessionist fantasies and threats by hypocrites and fringe elements, and I don't see the other states paying a whole lot of serious attention to their ramblings. More of in the vein of "are they nuts?" than "gee, we should pay close attention to that, they might be on to something."
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May 22, 2009, 12:25 PM | #77 | |
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Let's say I have been paying you money since my birth, and you want to give me back some of it for my own use, should I say NO just because I don't like you, or we have different points of view ? Federal funding starts out in the pockets of folks in those same states. Should they refuse to take it back on principle ?
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May 22, 2009, 12:36 PM | #78 |
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They absolutely should refuse on principle. The whole point of this discussion is about principle. On a further note, I certainly don't want my Federal tax dollars going to a state that thinks it should leave the country and form its own. Actually, I want my Federal tax dollars going to dragging their rebellious, secessionist selves back into the union, by any means necessary. What happened to all that talk about enemies foreign and domestic?
If some state is bound and determined to secede, then they should start making strides to cut all Federal ties, monetary included. Otherwise, what's the point? It's like this silly line in the sand threads that crops up from time to time. The secessionists, if there are even that many of them (thank god there aren't), should practice what they preach or shut up. Otherwise, its just so much counterproductive nonsense. |
May 22, 2009, 12:51 PM | #79 | ||||
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May 22, 2009, 12:52 PM | #80 |
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And people wonder why there aren't more blue state or black shooters?
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May 22, 2009, 01:04 PM | #81 | |
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LOL That would be a classic oxymoron. Seriously, I don't think this has as much to do with "partisan" politics as much as it does a runaway federal government (irregardless of who's in charge) stomping on the states rights.
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May 22, 2009, 04:38 PM | #82 | |
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not lobbying for a massive seccession as we had in the civil war. But I kind of like some of these states pushing back against the feds, even if they are blustering a little bit. We all know the federal government blusters about it's power and rights all the time. A little turn about is fair play. Remember, states are nothing more than an official collection of their people. People are herd or pack animals. Once they see one of their neighbors doing something successfully, that they were afraid to do themselves, they are likely to follow suit. This is really what federalism is about. We have 50 states to conduct experiments. We are much more likely to get the right answers faster and more efficiently with 50 different experiments being conducted than we are by having a central power who conducts one experiment according to the way they see it. That's not to say the feds couldn't or wouldn't get it right, but look at most of their history. They are CF'rs, which is my abreviation for a term which originated in military circles and indicates a cluster of people who are screwing up. If some of these states suffer no penalties in pushing back against the federal government, more states will begin to do the same things or create their own inventive ideas on how to put themselves ahead of the feds again. I am very interested in watching this play out.
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May 26, 2009, 11:40 AM | #83 |
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I seem unable to separate a belief in secession from a belief in the Second Amendment. If a State cannot secede, then how can it be a free State? I don't see how freedom and bondange can coexist in such a manner. And what would be the purpose of State militia if a State was not ultimately sovereign with a right to secede? It seems to me that if there was no right to secession then the Second Amendment should say something like "A federal standing army being necessary to secure federal domination over the States, no State shall have militia; but the individual right to keep personal arms for personal defense, hunting, and other personal uses shall not be infringed".
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May 26, 2009, 11:52 AM | #84 |
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As a matter of principle, why do you like state governments more than national governments, anyone?
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May 26, 2009, 12:02 PM | #85 |
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As a matter of principle, the federal gubmint isn't supposed to have much say in how the citizens of the states conduct themselves. The feds are just to make sure the states conduct themselves fairly with the other states. And to do as WE TELL THEM!
But that is just my uneducated redneck patriotic view of it all. Brent |
May 26, 2009, 02:02 PM | #86 | |
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May 26, 2009, 02:24 PM | #87 | |
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2. The state governments are not as powerful in a military sense as are the feds. Thus, more power in state governments is less threatening to the freedom of "The People". 3. State governments are supposed to have the power to punish various crimes such as murder, rape, etc. If one state wants to abolish the death penalty for 1st degree murder, I can always move to a state that has the death penalty if that is something I deem necessary. If the feds declare the death penalty to be null and void, then I can go nowhere to resolve my personal issue. 4. 50 experiments have a much higher shot at getting it right than does a one size fits all approach which is necessary at the federal level.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams. |
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