45 ACP not reloading properly

[xjz]

I did use the barrel as a gage after I re-adjusted my dies to the instructions I made a few cartriges and dropped them into the barrel and they seated fully and thats why I thought I had solved my problem, (because they wouldn't do that before) but it didn't.
I can try making a few cartriges with a shorter overall length and see if it helps but I don't see how it will because the gun cycles almost completely just the slide won't move the last 1/8 - 1/16 of an inch forward to put the gun into battery. I set the OAL for my cartriges at 1.24" this time and I believe the minimum I can set it to is 1.190 for the AA #5 I'm using. Thanks for the suggestions.

[xjz]

Just to let anyone know if interested, I tried one last thing to get my northeastern bullets to work in my wifes ruger p345. I adjusted the neck expanding die as far in as it could go (so much I could almost seat the bullet with my finger, even though in the long run that isn't good on the brass) just to be sure I couldn't be shaveing lead and put a generous chamfer on the .45 CCI once fired brass, and reloaded some more rounds. I loaded them at 4 lengths 1.190, 1.220, 1.245, and 1.275 just enough for 1 magazine full at each length. The 1.275 was was too long and I couldn't get but one to shoot out of the entire magazine. The 1.245 bullets fired every other round, same with the 1.220 rounds in their respective magazines. The 1.190 rounds would fire 2 and jam on the 3rd round with the bullet almost fully seaded in the barrel and the slide still needing to move forward .125 inch before ready to fire. I have given up on these northeastern lead bullets. I'm going to try to sell the remaining 650 bullets to one of the guys I work with that reload also as the bullets look good and all have the appropriate diameter of .4517 inch, but they just don't work in my wifes p345. I think we are going to try some bear creek poly coated bullets next so we don't have to handle as much bare lead, and hopefully they will load into the gun properly like my previous relaods did and all factory ammo does. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Powderman]

Can't get the slide to seat the last fraction of an inch?

What is your crimp diameter? Measure the neck of the seated round. It should measure between .465 and .470. Also, the length of your finished round should be the same as a round of loaded .45 ball ammo--remember, that's what the guns are designed to shoot with.

[VaFisher]

Maybe you should try some ball tip's with your set up the way it is. It will tell a story on the tip's along with the other fine points of interest that you are trying to figgure into the story.

[Unclenick]

I've put this 1911 image up before. I find OAL useless as an absolute measure between bullets, other than to be sure the round will fit in a magazine. Other than that, correct O.A.L. depends on bullet nose shape. When I was reloading a lot of 185 grain SWC's I discovered my group size cut almost in half if I seated the bullets to headspace on the bullet rather than the case mouth. That is in the illustration below, third from left.

A caveat: If the bullet nose were too wide, headspacing on the bullet could cause feed problems. I once tried making a dummy round by seating a bullet backward, creating a true wadcutter. Because I had run a throating reamer into my barrel, it was still sticking out a bit, checking the bullet by gauging against the barrel, as in the illustration below. It would not feed.

I subsequently reworked the feed ramp in my Goldcup, widening it to .25" radius and got it to feed empty cases whenever I racked the slide. It then also fed the "Waddcutter", though not every time. It turns out that if the bullet is too wide at the nose, it starts tipping up against the lips of the magazine too early in the feed, and that slows it down and angles it up enough that it won't feed reliably. Seating the bullet in deeper solves the problem, but reduces accuracy and can get you headspacing on the extractor, which tips the cartridge and reduces accuracy.

Years ago it was observed that the military issued match .45 ammunition shooters got at Camp Perry was more accurate than its commercial counterparts. Neither the commercial nor the military ammunition is crimped, but rather the jacketed bullets are pushed down into the formed case as with rifle bullets. The coefficient of friction is high enough between brass and copper to keep a bullet in place. Moreover, below the seating depth of hardball, the web of a .45 ACP case gets thicker, which also helps discourage a bullet from going deeper. What was different is the military required molten pitch to be placed in the case mouth ahead of the bullet to act as a waterproofing seal. It also turns out to act as glue, resulting in higher, more consistent start pressure.

If you look through old NRA reloading information on .45 ACP semi-wadcutters for match shooting, you’ll see pronounced roll crimps in the pictures. This was before taper crimp dies were on the market. The coefficient of friction between lead and brass is much lower than between copper and brass, even before you consider that these bullets are also lubricated, making them slide much, much more easily into a case. That makes good or uniform start pressure difficult to achieve without a crimp. Add to this that many of these bullets are bevel-based to seat more easily, but that the bevel base won’t intercept the thickening portion of the case web to limit push-back, and you can see it is possible for these guys to go much deeper into the case than a flat base bullet. That exaggerates the pressure hazard. Finally, it is much harder to sheer copper off jackets (though you spot a little of this on many commercially loaded rounds because they don’t flare before loading) than lead scrapes off swaged and cast bullets. So, the case has to be flared to reload lead bullets without shaving metal. This means the flare has to be pushed back in again to allow the round to chamber. All the above circumstances call for crimping swaged and lead bullets even if you get away without crimping jacketed bullets.

Taper crimps bite into the side of the bullet to form a small step that acts as a crimp groove. This effectively stops the hazardous bullet push-back. It also allows longer case life by working the mouth of the case less than roll crimps do. However, I find it does not do as good a job on start pressure. This is what brought me to headspacing off the bullet, which brings that pressure up and improves its consistency, especially with light charges. This cut my sandbagged 25 yard groups down to about 1.25” from more like 2” compared with the same bullet and powder charge seated to a more normal, shorter depth.

Nick

[Unclenick]

One last suggestion. Lead bullets slide onto the rifling a little easier than jacketed bullets do, and do so to different degrees, depending on how hard the alloy is and how long the bullet bearing band(s) is(are). If you load down too far, it is possible for recoil to fail to push the slide all the way back, so, even though it ejects fired cases, the recoil spring doesn't get a full running start before the slide starts to strip the next round out of the magazine. Usually the recoil feels a little softer or mushier when this is happening. If you have that response from the gun, run the load up a couple of tenths of a grain and see if that clears things up?

Nick

[bentbones]

Another caveat I have not seen mentioned is :
Just when you start to see loads perform like you want them too, it is possible to create the PERFECT DISASTER ROUND. When using a reduced starting load, you do not want to start too low.

Why? You COULD plug your barrel with a round that has a charge too low.

When testing, use a buddy to act as your 'spotter scope' to verify every round left the barrel!!

Good advice in loading manuals still use around 10% reduced loads from listed 'starting loads', not maximum loads.

bentbones OUT

[crazylegs]

Whoa there XJZ. The biggest problem you're having is OAL. You stated a while back you're using RNFPs. I use use these exclusively in my 45s (Glock and 1911). Seat these bullets even with the crimp groove. This should give you an OAL of 1.180-1.190". Crimp to .469-.470". Now, that oal seems mighty short, but that is how you do RNFPs. They should cycle like silk through your gun. The RNFP 200 grainer has a considerably smaller bearing surface than other styles in the same weight so you should be safe in using the same powder load. Try it, you'll like it. Those bullets, although designed for the Colt 45, work very well in ACPs.
Crazylegs