Price too high, rules too stringent

[FITASC]

Having lived out West with a lot of open public land it is very doable BUT you have to make the effort. Might mean using vacation instead of weekend road hunting, but it is a very real possibility.

[Art Eatman]

Priorities, I guess. I had a decent 8-5 job, but I did a lot of shade tree mechanic work for the extra money. That way I never had to spend the grocery money on my hunting and fishing. As a do-it-yourselfer I never had to hire vehicle maintenance or household repairs.

Look at it this way: One engine overhaul for a customer, back then, paid for the lease.

[TXAZ]

I have a couple of relatives who own more than a section of land each in East and West Texas. They don't lease their land out anymore for hunting for simple reasons, and more and more of their larger-tract landowning friends are no longer leasing either.

First, it takes only one bozo who shows up and sends a hot round across the property line, into a neighbors livestock or building (or the neighbor), and my relative ends up in court, bigtime.

Second, while most people are decent, there are enough instances where someone signs a well spelled-out, no-questions-about-the-rules-lease with no intent to make good or follow the covenants of the lease:

1. maximum number of hunters (they signed up for 4 hunters but brought 40)
2. calibers allowed
3. what game can be taken
4. allowed hunting times during the day
5. property rules and regulations
6. specific hunting days in a month / year
7. registration of each hunter and proof of insurance / liability indemnification
8. rectification of any issues attributed to the hunters (and who decides)
9. etc, etc, etc clearly spelled out.

Getting a judgement from a careless hunter doesn't mean anything if they just decide they're never going to pay, or don't have the financial assets to attach.

Finally, the peace of mind of not having to enforce the above is worth more than the lease receipts. Both allow friends and family to go out most any time by just checking in, but leasing to people who don't necessarily care i a disaster waiting to happen.

We have seen the signs of illegal / trespassing hunters on a few occasions. Since there's not really a solid way to sort out the intent of a wouldbe hunter, yea I wouldn't lease out my land either.

[gw44]

I guess I am blessed to have lived in Michigan all my life, I had to hunt state land at first and then a friends farm I did well hunting both, we have lots and lots of state land come hunt here in Michigan !!!!

[GarandTd]

I too am blessed. In PA, I have many acres of public land within 5 miles of me in multiple directions. Some of it is where I learned to hunt in my youth. These days I am able to hunt with my son on an 88 acre tract of land that belongs to my in-laws. The property is posted to outsiders, but they do permit family members to hunt there with prior permission. I'm sorry you(op) do not have access to land to pass these skills on to your children.

[Roamin_Wade]

Yes sir, not about having made wrong decisions. Quite to the contrary, I’ve come a long way from where I’ve come from. Parents divorced when I was 9 and my mother declared war on my father and made my life hell. She spoiled me with letting me do things I’d have never done if my father was able to play a larger part of me. I wasn’t spoiled with monetary things, just let me go wild. I never got out of the 9th grade, but when I was 17 and quit, my father promptly made sure I had a drivers license and GED. I tried like hell to get into the Army at 22 yrs old but because I had quit school and because I was arrested twice for city charges (never been to county jail) I had to get a waiver for the school thing and then again for the arrest record, which I got, and then took the ASVAB and physical and was waiting on a ship date when Jan 1 of ‘94 rolled around and as of that moment no non-grads were let in. Two months later I began a 15 month Aviation Maintenance school which culminated in me becoming an FAA licensed A&P Mechanic. I’m now just turned 47 and I’ve been working at a well known Firearms store for a year now because I had a lower back ALIF fusion surgery and a hand condition called Dupuytren’s Contracture where my fingers curl up into my palm. I had the first one cut out at 41 yrs old and I’ve had 7 others surgically removed since then. It’s recurring and it’s exasperated by working with my hands and so I was having a surgery per year right when that IDIOT obama screwed up healthcare and every penny I could save in a year was being spent so I could get my keys out of my front pocket! I live in a 5 yr old $250,000 home, I have a sweet ‘72 Corvette LT1 and a little Boston Whaler on the side of my house. Now that my kids are old enough to hunt I want to pass on our awesome National traditions to my kids and flat can’t afford those prices.

Now, if the person that said that stupid stuff thinks I should have chose better he can go get bent and pound sand! There’s another thing that happens in Texas. Folks like that can very easily find themselves on their backs staring up into the sky wondering who just knocked the S*** out of them...

[FITASC]

And your rant does nothing to solve your issue. If you do not want to pay for a lease in TX, either hunt what small amounts of public land is available or go out of state.

[reynolds357]

And your rant does nothing to solve your issue. If you do not want to pay for a lease in TX, either hunt what small amounts of public land is available or go out of state.
__________________

Many time, just saying what's on your mind makes you feel better. My wife says I ***** all the time. It sure makes me feel better.

[Art Eatman]

Trouble is, ranting doesn't put money in the billfold.

My choice was to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer. That meant that a higher percentage of my paycheck stayed in my pocket. Then, the shade-tree mechanic work was like a 40% pay raise, which paid for some luxuries--like deer leases.

Choices.

[stagpanther]

Maine is crazy land when it comes to hunting--I know some Maine hunters who don't even bother hunting in their own state--little public-access land compared to privately-held and increasingly each year the pressure on private land is growing such that trespassing, intentional vandalism, stealing of stands and trail cams etc is rising. If the hunters aren't organized enough to look out for public lands access issues--then inevitably hunting land will disappear as it gets sold to richer private land-holders. I once bought a tract of land for myself thinking that I could at least have a place for myself--but unless you or someone you appoint lives there full-time and wants to personally supervise patrolling and enforcement--you WILL be overrun with trespassers eventually who don't care about ownership rights. It's a doubled-edged sword problem--people who are precluded from hunting your land will hate you for it--and if you allow access to everyone (which I did) eventually your land will be vandalized and degraded. I sold at a loss but was happy to be rid of the problems.

[Roamin_Wade]

I made a reply yesterday and I don’t see it today. Did anyone else see it?

*Nevermind this.*

[Roamin_Wade]

I have tried hunting public land in Texas. A friend and I chose a spot and each of us went into the woods in one direction and applied reflect tape so our flashlights would lead the way the next week when the season started. Then we went to the other side of the road and did the same thing so we could park and each start walking in on our respective sides. When I got in there the morning of opening day and got up into my makeshift stand and as soon as I stopped moving I saw a light flash me from about 20 feet away. A person that couldn’t speak English had used my guiding tape and was hunting the spot. We sat there all morning and never saw anything but I was unsure how it would’ve worked if a buck would have showed himself.
I had one bullet in my rifle. I only had three rounds when we left to go hunting and I didn’t buy any on my way out there because that should be two more shots than I needed. The evening before the hunt, after we set up camp, I went to the rear of the camping spot and opened my soft case to make sure all my screws on my scope were tight and when I did that a game warden drove by and two officers stopped and got out of the car and came back to me. They even did the good cop/bad cop thing to me and said that I was breaking the law and then the bad cop wrote me a $250 fine, but to add insult to injury, that SOB took two of my three rounds and said he could’ve taken my rifle. I guess I was technically breaking the law but I wasn’t being unsafe and if they would have drove past a minute before or a minute later I wouldn’t have had my soft case open.

Now, that’s my experience hunting public lands.

[IdaD]

Originally Posted by Roamin_Wade

I have tried hunting public land in Texas. A friend and I chose a spot and each of us went into the woods in one direction and applied reflect tape so our flashlights would lead the way the next week when the season started. Then we went to the other side of the road and did the same thing so we could park and each start walking in on our respective sides. When I got in there the morning of opening day and got up into my makeshift stand and as soon as I stopped moving I saw a light flash me from about 20 feet away. A person that couldn’t speak English had used my guiding tape and was hunting the spot. We sat there all morning and never saw anything but I was unsure how it would’ve worked if a buck would have showed himself.
I had one bullet in my rifle. I only had three rounds when we left to go hunting and I didn’t buy any on my way out there because that should be two more shots than I needed. The evening before the hunt, after we set up camp, I went to the rear of the camping spot and opened my soft case to make sure all my screws on my scope were tight and when I did that a game warden drove by and two officers stopped and got out of the car and came back to me. They even did the good cop/bad cop thing to me and said that I was breaking the law and then the bad cop wrote me a $250 fine, but to add insult to injury, that SOB took two of my three rounds and said he could’ve taken my rifle. I guess I was technically breaking the law but I wasn’t being unsafe and if they would have drove past a minute before or a minute later I wouldn’t have had my soft case open.

Now, that’s my experience hunting public lands.

What was illegal?

I feel really fortunate to have grown up in Eastern Oregon and to live in Idaho. I've always had what seems like limitless public land all around me. I think Idaho is 65% public land to the tune of about 35 million acres. We just drag the campers out to where we want to hunt and enjoy.

[Art Eatman]

Roamin Wade, what law were you supposed to have broken?

[GarandTd]

If I had to guess, he had the rifle loaded, preseason, in the woods. I don't see any other way that a law would have been broken.

[reynolds357]

Trouble is, ranting doesn't put money in the billfold.

My choice was to learn to be a do-it-yourselfer. That meant that a higher percentage of my paycheck stayed in my pocket. Then, the shade-tree mechanic work was like a 40% pay raise, which paid for some luxuries--like deer leases.

Choices.

You can make good money turning a wrench.

[DukeConnor]

Pa has 1.5 million acres of state game lands. I have never felt the need to pay to hunt. Do other states such as Texas have state game lands ? Is land leased just for better hunting or are their just no alternatives ?

[FITASC]

Does not TX disallow you to have a loaded rifle on/in your vehicle on a road?

[Double Naught Spy]

No, Texas does not disallow you from having a loaded rifle on/in your vehicle. For many of us, it is a common practice.

[Double Naught Spy]

Okay, after reading over the thread a couple of times, what I get is that the OP is upset because hunting in Texas isn't as convenient or as cheap as he thinks it should be so that he can take his kids hunting like his dad did back in the day...which as it turns out was when Texas had less people and less hunters. Of course, him not being able to hunt is due to the Baby Boomers and all the hunters in the area are dumb rednecks that can't be trusted to hunt the way he thinks that they should be hunting. On top of that, when he hunted public land, the cops went after him for some weird something that isn't illegal, confiscating 2 of the "bullets" he didn't even need. Life has challenged him repeatedly with medical issues and Obama did him wrong with Obamacare. Still he can't afford to take his kids hunting despite having a a nearly new quarter million dollar house, classic "sweet" Corvette, and a boat.

I am going to agree with the poor decisions statement. If you have that kind of opulence but can't afford to go hunting, you have made some really poor decisions. If this is a value experience that you think is so important, sell the 'vette and get a lease for several years. Sometimes, you gotta make sacrifices for your kids.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Life has challenged him repeatedly with medical issues and Obama did him wrong with Obamacare. Still he can't afford to take his kids hunting despite having a a nearly new quarter million dollar house, classic "sweet" Corvette, and a boat.

I am going to agree with the poor decisions statement. If you have that kind of opulence but can't afford to go hunting, you have made some really poor decisions. If this is a value experience that you think is so important, sell the 'vette and get a lease for several years. Sometimes, you gotta make sacrifices for your kids.

again, IMHO, it has nuttin' to do with making "poor" decisions, but everything to do about priorities. Re-read the OP's posts. It's not that he can't afford to, it's just that in his situation, he can't justify it, and is only lamenting and frustrated. I took my kids hunting because it used to be a cheap date. While other kids were going to Disney world and and making numerous trips to the waterparks in the Dells, I took my kids fishing and hunting. The monies saved went towards their college educations, summer sports camps and dirtbikes. I understand how the OP would like to take his kids hunting, but what hunting does he have to introduce them to? Pay to hunt domesticated and semi-domesticated animals? While that is an okay thing to do occasionally, he really is not a skill set that one passes on. One reason it has become so popular....so folks with no or few hunting skills can feel like a successful hunter. In order to get that 180 class buck that seems the norm on Outdoor T.V., most folks likely aren't going to get an opportunity on public land......not even in Texas.

WE all have to make choices. Sometimes there just ain't enough to go around to do everything on our bucket list. Seems these types of forums are just a good place to vent about it.

[FITASC]

And yet there are nearby states he can go to do the type of hunting he is whining about; one has to make the effort

[Double Naught Spy]

again, IMHO, it has nuttin' to do with making "poor" decisions, but everything to do about priorities. Re-read the OP's posts.

No. Priorities are decisions.

WE all have to make choices.

Last I checked, choices are decisions.

He claims hunting is cost prohibitive. However as you noted in post #25, given prices over time, the cost to hunt in the past isn't that far out of line with the cost of hunting today. He has made the DECISION to not spend that kind of money on his kids, even though his father did something comparable for him.

Sometimes there just ain't enough to go around to do everything on our bucket list.

This time there is enough to go around. It isn't that he can't afford it, but that he won't afford it. Again, that is a decision. Sorry, but when a person boasts about their wealth and material belongings and then talk about how something they really want to do for their kids is cost prohibitive when that cost is a drop in the buck compared to what they boasted about, then I see no validity in their ranting.

Maybe that life long joyous set of memories of hunting with dad back in the day that he wants his kids to experience is just too far down that bucket list below "sweet" Corvette and a boat.

As a parent, either you make things happen for your kids or you don't. He is choosing not to make this happen, despite having the means, and then putting the blame on everybody else. After all, it isn't his fault that hunting costs money.

[stagpanther]

This whole conversation makes me a bit sad--it sort of illustrates the gradual disappearance of the notion of "public's right to hunt public access land"--which I personally consider just as sacred as the 2nd amendment.

[Lohman446]

It strikes me that if the price of lease is too high and the rules are too stringent the OP has an excellent business opportunity to buy the land he would love to be able to hunt on, hunt on it under the rules and dates he chooses, and lease it out for the rest under appropriate rules and fairer prices.