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Old September 13, 2013, 04:35 PM   #1
Koda94
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guilty by association, sharing tags....

I am just curious what the implications are if someone in your hunting party was charged with poaching?

Specifically, those that carry a rifle with no valid tag to fill others tags in the party. This is a common practice here in Oregon where someone fills a tag then continues to hunt to increase the chances of filling more tags in the party. Its not legal its poaching.

In one point of view I don't care what others do but I am wondering if I am with a person who gets busted for this are there any implications for myself?
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Old September 13, 2013, 04:45 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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It's illegal and immoral.

Do not associate with folks who are doing illegal and immoral things.

If you're not with them, you don't have to worry about getting caught with them.
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:02 PM   #3
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guilty by association, sharing tags....

Don't go out with a group that does stuff you disagree with whether legally or morally. You are very likely either to get coerced into something you regret or be considered a participant or accessory to the illegal acts. If so you could not only have a citation and hefty fee, but in various states could lose hunting privilege for one year or even permanently. And your rifle and vehicle may be at risk depending on the involvement.

No real friend would ask you to do that just so they can take home a deer.
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:06 PM   #4
Koda94
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Quote:
It's illegal and immoral.

Do not associate with folks who are doing illegal and immoral things.

If you're not with them, you don't have to worry about getting caught with them.
I agree

let me explain the situation a bit more... my only hunting partner for ~25 years, my dad, has retired from hunting due to age. The past couple years I am in the process of establishing a new elk hunting party. This problem of tag sharing (or however you call it) is extremely common in Oregon.

I guess this means I will have to make this clear in advance and not go hunting or go home immediately when I encounter it because its difficult to weed this out in the planning stage.

So back to my OP, are there any implications on my part if I am with someone who turns out does not have a valid tag and gets busted?
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:12 PM   #5
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NWPilgrim, I can say I will not get coherced into doing anything illegal but your reply is confirming my suspicions on implications. I think if I find myself in this situation I need to leave immediately even if there is a downed elk I wont offer help packing out even if a tag is 'on the way'....
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:18 PM   #6
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Brian is spot on.



Not associating with poachers and slob hunters is the best answer if a person likes the privilege of hunting.

Quote:
This is a common practice here in Oregon where someone fills a tag then continues to hunt to increase the chances of filling more tags in the party.
Sometimes 'common practices' that are illegal have a way of seeming to become less illegal or more acceptable to those doing them till LE shows up.
Don't know exactly what would happen but you can bet that if I were the Warden and could only arrest the tagless person, I would surely remember the faces of the others. Thinking the 'birds of a feather' line of thought.
And every person in the party had better be 100% legal cause there would not be any breaks given. Even for other minor infractions.

Just asking for unwanted trouble IMO.
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
So back to my OP, are there any implications on my part if I am with someone who turns out does not have a valid tag and gets busted?
As long as you are following the rules you should be fine.
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:22 PM   #8
Grizz12
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tag "sharing" is legal in some states
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Old September 13, 2013, 05:54 PM   #9
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Pfleuger: It's illegal and immoral.
Not here in Wisconsin. Not for gun season. Years ago it was, but, even tho it was illegal, it was a common practice and hard to prosecute cause other seasons(like coyote) were open during the gun season. But, every year a few folks would get nailed for it. Since I always hunted primarily on public land, I followed the law pretty close. If I filled my tag, I was happy to go along without a gun and help drive for others. Once the herd got hard to control, the DNR legalized "group" hunting for the regular gun season. Rules are rules. Play by 'em or you are cheating/breaking the law......period.
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Old September 13, 2013, 06:05 PM   #10
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I don't see it as immoral but in many states it is illegal.
if you are with someone and they see an animal that they do not believe they can kill and you have a clear shot, I see no problem with helping them out and taking the shot.

after all, a tag was issued and purchased for that animal so what's the problem?(rhetorical, please don't flame over this)

on the other hand, some states do allow(or have in the past) party hunting and the result is often a group of hunters blasting at a herd of animals and when the smoke clears seeing 1 too many animals laying on the ground or multiple bullets to 1 animal and having a lot of meat ruined.

there is also the murkied water of hunting guides that often carry rifles, either as a backup to the person they are guiding or for protection from dangerous wildlife, neither of which requires a tag there is no way for a game warden to prove that they were hunting without a tag. with nothing but circumstantial evidence there is nothing to say that they actually are attempting to fill a tag for someone else and even if the bullet pulled from your animal does not match your gun, what is to say that you didn't swap at some point during the day?

I rarely go on an expedition out on the mountain with a single gun and never go alone and none of the people I hunt with take a single gun either. there can be any number of shots you could expect to take so if all I have are shoulder cannons with 127x scopes and the other guy brought a couple open sighted lever guns then we could both be set whether we decide to go out on the breaks or stay in the timber that day. I have never seen a state that says you can not hunt with another persons gun and if there is then it would be illegal to hunt before the age of 18.
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Old September 13, 2013, 07:32 PM   #11
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+1 to Brian

Bottom line: someone without a valid tag is shooting a game animal.

This is almost as bad as people in highly hunted areas running up and tagging someone else's kill. (Heard of this happening in NW Washington). Of course the appropriate response (if you are physically capable)is to beat the stuffing out of whoever tagged your kill. If you can't, just get their license plate number and report them.
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Old September 13, 2013, 07:38 PM   #12
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Since this issue varies from state to state, arbitrary judgements don't really seem proper in any all-inclusive sense.

By and large, it's an individual call, considering law, custom and enforcement behaviors.

For instance, in Texas, it's not unknown for deer camps to have "camp meat". It's generally a nubbin buck, eaten during the hunting session. Sure, game wardens know about it--but very carefully refrain from noticing or questioning. It's a waste of time to harumph about a century-old tradition. Odds are, it's not just a Texas thing, either.
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Old September 13, 2013, 08:57 PM   #13
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I tended to see it more with upland hunting since where I hunted out West, even drawing a deer tag was a slim possibility, but upland was plentiful. Most folks looked at it thusly - 4 hunters, 15 birds each, means the group can take 60 and divvy them up, even if one guy only shot five and two others shot 20
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Old September 14, 2013, 12:03 AM   #14
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Where I live, it's illegal. Anyone involved is charged with poaching. Anyone convicted (usually) loses all property associated with the crime (guns, ammo, trucks, ATVs, trailers, tents, camp gear, etc), has to pay fines, has to perform wildlife/forest service work for further restitution, and loses their hunting privileges for 3 years to life (usually 10-15). And, all of the states around here are in the IWVC (Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact), so you lose hunting and fishing privileges in 38+ other states.

Oregon is one of those states....
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Old September 14, 2013, 12:24 AM   #15
Koda94
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Quote:
Anyone involved is charged with poaching
This is what I'm looking for. Would I be "involved" just by being part of the hunting camp? An issue here is traditionally in many camps if a person downs an elk everyone helps pack it out. So lets say I partner with someone and he drops two elk.... technically if I help him dress and pack it out even while waiting for others to arrive then I would be involved.

I admit it would be difficult to prove. Here in Oregon its legal to carry a rifle during any hunting season without a tag. It is illegal to kill an animal for another person.

As far as the moral issue I have no problem if it was legal, but round here its not.
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Old September 14, 2013, 12:37 AM   #16
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ok, so I know the law but I thought I would re-read the regs to see if there is anything specific on this and there is.

I don't know the ORS statute but here is a copy/paste from Oregon's hunting regs:
Quote:
Any person who counsels, aids or
assists in any violation of the wildlife
laws, or shares in any of the proceeds
of such violation by receiving or
possessing any wildlife, shall incur the
penalties provided for the person guilty
of such violation.
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Old September 14, 2013, 01:05 AM   #17
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Ok so I dug up more in the regs that pretty much answers my original question.

Quote:
HUNTING PROHIBITED
No Person Shall:
■ Hunt with a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle without a valid unused deer or
elk tag for that time period and area on
their person....
So my guess is if you partner up with someone from your party that's already filled their tag (or simply doesn't have one) then you could be guilty of 'assisting'...

I think I just wrapped up my query on being guilty by association.
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Old September 14, 2013, 04:26 AM   #18
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Well, like I advised my kids when they were growing up: The goal is not to see how close you can get to the fine line of a restriction. If you don't want to suffer the consequences of violating the restriction, then stay the hell away from anywhere NEAR the line.

Growing up I was always the kid that watched others screw off and the instant I caved in and joined in, some authority figure would magically appear and I was the only caught. I learned early on just to stay away from shenanigans if I didn't want the repercussions. There is too much life to enjoy to be taking needless chances FOR SOMEONE ELSE's DUBIOUS BEHAVIOR.
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Old September 14, 2013, 08:27 AM   #19
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To hunt deer in Ohio, a person must purchase a regular hunting lic. and an additional deer permit . On the deer permit there is attached a temporary tag. Once you kill a deer, you must fill out and attach temporary tag where the deer fell.

After that is done, I can assist someone else in hunting deer as long as I don't possess a weapon commonly used to take wild animals.
I can help in a drive, help drag someone else's tagged deer out, I can even feild dress another person's deer as long as their tag is on the deer...I just cannot have a hunting implement commonly used to kill wild animals in my possession while doing so.

Our turkey hunting is the same way. Once I fill out and place my temp. tag on a turkey, I am free to assist(calling,spotting,etc.) another person in taking their turkey...but I cannot possess a hunting implement commonly used to kill wildlife.

Too, FWIW, it is illegal for me to possess someone else's hunting permit while affield.

Last edited by shortwave; September 14, 2013 at 09:05 AM.
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Old September 14, 2013, 08:38 AM   #20
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I understand how people tag share and don't believe that they are doing any thing wrong. After all, they are still tagging an animal with a legally bought tag.

That said, it defeats the letter of the law and as Brian said, I look at it as immoral as well.

Once someone has filled their tags that doesn't mean the hunt is over. You can still go and help drive game, scout and provide moral support. My buddy and I always continue to go until the season ends or tags are filled. Hell, worse case take a book and read.
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Old September 14, 2013, 09:03 AM   #21
buck460XVR
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As I said in my first post.....group hunting is only allowed for the regular gun deer seasons. It does not allow it for archery, wild turkey, small game or waterfowl. In those scenarios, each hunter is responsible for their own daily bag limit or tag. Exceeding it, is poaching and is prosecuted as such. Now.....in a case of an accidental shooting(as in hitting and killing two turkeys with one shot and only having one tag), if a warden is called and there is a member of the party there with a unfilled tag.....generally they will let that person tag it. But that usually is up to the discretion of the warden.
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Old September 14, 2013, 09:12 AM   #22
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
As I said in my first post.....group hunting is only allowed for the regular gun deer seasons.
Your state is not really relevant. Comments about it being illegal and immoral apply to the OP's state. Other states have different laws, and no relevance, to the Ops question.
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Old September 14, 2013, 09:34 AM   #23
shortwave
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Quote:
Ok so I dug up more in the regs that pretty much answers my original question.


Quote:
HUNTING PROHIBITED
No Person Shall:
■ Hunt with a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle without a valid unused deer or
elk tag for that time period and area on
their person....

So my guess is if you partner up with someone from your party that's already filled their tag (or simply doesn't have one) then you could be guilty of 'assisting'...

I think I just wrapped up my query on being guilty by association.
...
...and...

Quote:
Any person who counsels, aids or
assists in any violation of the wildlife
laws, or shares in any of the proceeds
of such violation by receiving or
possessing any wildlife, shall incur the
penalties provided for the person guilty
of such violation.
...sounds like you found a very straight forward answer to your question.
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