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January 4, 2007, 03:53 PM | #1 |
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Video#2: Multiple COM hit from several LEO's guns and walking on...
Here is one more striking video for the believers in any such thing as stopping power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmQFu8xiTM It is also very interesting for it's different perspectives from different camea angles. BUT: Most important for this forum. That guy is being hit a dozen times by several LEO's guns from 10ft COM and keeps on walking and walking and turing with his gun. If I see it right, what finally dropped him was a shot to the spine from the left officer's gun from 2ft distance. Just forget the idea of stopping power.
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January 4, 2007, 04:43 PM | #2 |
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It said in the video that the guy fired a shot but I've seen that tape before and it was a cell phone or a remote control. Just for info sake - not a criticism.
One might note that the guy hardly moves when hit until he drops.
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January 4, 2007, 04:56 PM | #3 |
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"Just forget the idea of stopping power"
AMEN! |
January 4, 2007, 04:59 PM | #4 |
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Yeah, I have seen that video before on Most Shocking I think. They said that all he had was a cell phone or remote. But that is crazy, especially the restraint of the first officer to fire when he was right up in the guys face. The guy obviously pointed something at the officer and he still hadn't fired yet. Hats off...
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January 4, 2007, 05:09 PM | #5 |
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Wow that cop firing all the rounds just wasted him and his partner or the other LEO was right there trying to grab the guys weapon. I'd be pissed if I were him and once we got out of public i'd be wipping his ass for firing so damn close to me.
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January 4, 2007, 05:23 PM | #6 |
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I watched this several times. Paused is several times. I believe this man was in fact armed with a small handgun. Looks to be a .22 or 32 caliber pistol.
This guy entered view of camera #2 at 23:33:51 , after 9 seconds. At 23:34:00 he is down. From what I saw , he was possibly shot by 10 to 12 rounds. I would say after 5 or 6 he was the walking dead anyway. This man had to be high on something. Appears that the closest officer was the one who hit his CNS. Handguns can be lethal but they aren't great stoppers. Good video to illustrate how effective a handgun really is. Placement is paramount. |
January 4, 2007, 05:56 PM | #7 |
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Personally I think the good Lord planned it that way
Rifles are deadly...but it is harder to shoot yourself Handguns make it easy to inflict damage on your person but you have to be dilligent in order to actually kill yourself |
January 4, 2007, 06:13 PM | #8 |
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It was NOT a gun.
I saw that video, too on America's Most Shocking or something. It was in fact a cell phone that the guy was pointing like a gun. The officer ducking gives the impression that there was a shot. There was not.
However, they were in fear for their lives and were totally justified. It looks like suicide by cop to me. |
January 4, 2007, 06:25 PM | #9 |
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Stopping power
I am a firm believer in the theory that 'Stopping power' is 99% shot placement and 1% caliber.
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January 4, 2007, 07:51 PM | #10 |
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"However, they were in fear for their lives and were totally justified."
I'm not buying that. A cop needs to have enough restraint to refrain from firing until he knows there is a threat If any civilian (CCW holder or not) shot an unarmed person, mostly likely the "fear for my life" defense wouldn't fly. I'm a gun owner and love them...but there have been too many cop shootings of unarmed persons or massive overkill (50 or more shots fired at an unarmed individual). I've no idea what this guy was carying...it looked like a gun to me in that grainy flick. But the cop on the scene was within inches of the man shot. That cop should have been able to determine the real threat, if any. |
January 4, 2007, 08:57 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
Edit: After further review, It could have come from the officer's gun. |
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January 4, 2007, 09:18 PM | #12 |
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i would have just tackled him, there were two of them and at least two more were close by
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January 4, 2007, 09:59 PM | #13 |
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"A cop needs to have enough restraint to refrain from firing until he knows there is a threat"
How does he know for sure? After he gets shot? I had to watch the video and freeze-frame it to see that wasn't a gun. These guys didn't have time to make that kind of decision. I'd have done the same thing in that officer's shoes. Actually, I might have shot him a lot sooner. "But the cop on the scene was within inches of the man shot. That cop should have been able to determine the real threat, if any." It looked like a gun to him. See him duck? |
January 4, 2007, 10:21 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
The threshold for the application of deadly force often times is different for any given person.
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January 5, 2007, 01:24 AM | #15 | |
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Hits?
Quote:
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January 5, 2007, 08:23 AM | #16 |
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"However, they were in fear for their lives and were totally justified."
I'm not buying that. A cop needs to have enough restraint to refrain from firing until he knows there is a threat If any civilian (CCW holder or not) shot an unarmed person, mostly likely the "fear for my life" defense wouldn't fly. I'm a gun owner and love them...but there have been too many cop shootings of unarmed persons or massive overkill (50 or more shots fired at an unarmed individual). I've no idea what this guy was carying...it looked like a gun to me in that grainy flick. But the cop on the scene was within inches of the man shot. That cop should have been able to determine the real threat, if any." Spoken by someone who obviuosly has no idea what he is talking about. Please enlighten us to your expertise on dealing with individuals in these type situations.
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January 5, 2007, 12:34 PM | #17 |
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I could be wrong
I thought they said on the TV show that it was a cell phone. I could be mis-remembering.
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January 5, 2007, 04:55 PM | #18 |
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They said - cell phone - on the show.
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January 5, 2007, 06:35 PM | #19 | |
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And it is based on the totality of the circumstances, and based on those circumstances, would a reasonable person react in the same manner. Based on that video, a reasonable person would believe that the guy who just led a pursuit, pointed a weapon and not a cell phone, especillay in that split second.
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January 5, 2007, 07:46 PM | #20 |
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Cell Phone Guns
I have seen LE bulletins about cell phones and pagers (and other things like belt buckles, brushes, combs, lighters, etc) that have been modified into 1 or 2 shot firearms. I don't have any links, but I have personally seen the bulletins along with color photos of the converted guns.
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January 5, 2007, 07:57 PM | #21 |
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From the last part of the clip, the officer did not start firing until the suspect swung what appeared to be a weapon around to point at the officer's partner. The officer fired in defense of his partner as his partner ducked. It looked like a clean shoot, but I don't understand why he continued to fire after the suspect lowered what appeared to be a weapon.
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January 5, 2007, 09:03 PM | #22 | |
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Pointing a cell-phone (or anything else) at an armed man who is pointing a gun at you is not a survival trait.
Quote:
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January 6, 2007, 04:53 AM | #23 | |
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In a video, or a fight for life, a cell-phone, a knife or whatever can easily be mistaken for a gun, espacially for a gun with black/blue frame and stainless slide... If LEOs point guns at you and you do anything else but surrender moving slowly, you do commit suicide and the LEO can't be blamed. They are not obliged to take chances with their lifes or the lifes of innocent bystanders.
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January 6, 2007, 10:17 AM | #24 |
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If you'll notice, as the suspect is walking away then turns and points the cell phone, the officer he points it at ducks. That is a VERY strong indicator that the officer, at that moment, believed the cell phone to be a gun based upon the actions of the suspect.
Thank God that the actions of the officer are judged based upon what he knew or reasonably believed at the time of the incident, not by a bunch of wannabe experts who make a decision on his actions in hindsight.
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January 6, 2007, 06:37 PM | #25 | |
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