S&W 686 spring kit

[Jeryray]

Installed a wilson combat spring set in a new 686. Trigger pull after the kit was 3.1 lbs, DA about 8 lbs.

WHat I was expecting, BUT I am having bullets not going off all the time.

Tried Factory CCI. Remington primers.

Wilson said to try the trigger relief spring to a different (heavier) spring.

I believe it's the main hammer spring.

I don't really wish to grind the spring screw down.

Any one else make mainsprings that would just have a little more force for the hammer.

Can't have this happening in a match.

TIA

[MrBorland]

So, you're mainspring is too light and giving you unreliable ignition? Grinding the strain screw down will only lighten the action further.

IME, about an 8 lb DA is about the threshold for reliable ignition with an otherwise factory stock gun. If you're not getting reliable ignition at 8 lbs, you've got a few options: 1) shoot only ammo loaded with Federal primers, 2) put in stronger main and rebound springs, 3) add material to the end of the screw by placing a gutted fired primer or a piece of brass shim stock (cut from a fired case) between the end of the screw and the spring. This is a very common maneuver if you only need a bit more DA power.

4) You can also bob the hammer and convert to DAO, since a lighter hammer enhances reliability some. And finally 5) have a pro do a bona fide action job on the gun. Lightening the action by swapping springs really should be done in conjunction with a good action job, since if the internal mechanism isn't in spec and/or smooth, lighter springs can quickly lead to reliability issues.

[pete2]

Put the stock hammer spring back in the gun. The rebound spring won't effect how hard the hammer falls. My 625 is set up for Fed. Primers, I recently tried CCI primers, 199 out of 200 fired the first time. Years ago I couldn't get Fed. Primers, I added a fired primer to the strain screw, it would then fire Win and Rem primers.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by pete2

Put the stock hammer spring back in the gun. The rebound spring won't effect how hard the hammer falls.

If the OP needs more than a little oomph and has to go the stock main, they should re-install the stock rebound spring as well. It's true the rebound doesn't affect the hammer fall, but it works against the mainspring on the trigger's return, so it's best they be balanced appropriately. A rebound spring that's too light (relative to the main) will result in a sluggish trigger return, and possible short-stroking of the DA trigger.

[Don P]

I concur with MrBorland, a trigger that light will need federal primers. Something the OP can try before swapping springs out again is to put a spent primer cup between the main spring screw and main spring. I had to do this with my 625 using a reduced power spring from Wolff gave just enough oomph to lite off my loads. CCI primers are like bricks compared to federal.

I don't really wish to grind the spring screw down

This tells me you really do not know what you are doing. Jerry Kuhnhausen has written some wonderful shop manuals. Get his manual The S&W Revolver

[4V50 Gary]

This is why I don't like replacing factory springs with aftermarket springs. Factory springs are designed to work with all SAAMI spec ammunition. When you swap springs, you've got a prima donna which of necessity is followed by a learning curve to determine what that prima donna will work with reliably. In a pinch, it can't be used for self defense.

Do not grind down the screw. You'll only have to buy a new one.

[MrBorland]

It's not a given that any spring swap will categorically render a gun a prima donna. But I do agree that doing that swap willy nilly, and/or without a quality tune will greatly increase your odds of ending up with a prima donna.

Still, if it's a SD gun, your best bet is a good tuning by a pro without messing with the springs. I'd rather have a smooth trigger than a light one. A smooth one just feels lighter as well.

[4V50 Gary]

Concur with you MrBorland on a smooth trigger.

Back in the '80s, we placed a coin atop of the revolver's barrel rib and cycled the DA trigger while aiming at a target. We kept that coin up there. It helped when I got to the academy as they didn't have to teach me how to shoot there.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary

Back in the '80s, we placed a coin atop of the revolver's barrel rib and cycled the DA trigger while aiming at a target. We kept that coin up there. It helped when I got to the academy as they didn't have to teach me how to shoot there.

Aye, the coin drill is a good one. Some years ago, I was recovering from some back surgery, and limited to dryfire at home. The coin drill saw a lot of use, and eventually I posted my own version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI

[Jeryray]

Wow, cool, 50 years ago I may have been able to do that. These days a 5lb trigger pull really huts.

Getting old sucks..

[straightshooterjake]

OP, if you want to improve the trigger in your 686, I have written a long article on this subject. In the article I discuss the relationship between the springs, the importance of strain screw length, and some of the possible causes of misfires.

The article is quite long, and it may contain more info than you really wanted. But if you want to work on your own gun, then most of it is information that you actually need.

The article is here:

Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers

And it is also discussed in this thread:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=584772

Good luck with your revolver.

[Jeryray]

Jake, excellent article, I read it completely and watched the videos. I had worked my K38 some 40 years ago. Not too much changed.

They only question I still have is in the video some metal is filed away on the cylinder release bar. What does that do for you?

Thank you for this reply, it's been very informative.

[straightshooterjake]

Originally Posted by Jeryray

They only question I still have is in the video some metal is filed away on the cylinder release bar. What does that do for you?

I am not sure which part you are referring to. Please see if you can find the exact part name on a schematic for S&W revolvers. Or if you can find a picture and add an arrow to show exactly which spot you mean, that would clarify it. In a full trigger job, there are a lot of small surfaces that get touched on a lot of different parts. Sometimes it is hard to identify a certain spot without a picture.

[Jeryray]

Watch this guy https://www.pewpewtactical.com/sw-re...er-job-how-to/
He files the thumb release.

[straightshooterjake]

Originally Posted by Jeryray

Watch this guy https://www.pewpewtactical.com/sw-re...er-job-how-to/
He files the thumb release.

Is filing the thumbpiece shown in one of the videos? I did not see anything about it in the article. However, I think I know what you are referring to now, but if you send me the exact minutes and seconds where it is shown on one of the videos, I will take a look.

I also want to mention that I have not found any internet videos on S&W trigger jobs that are good enough to recommend. I look at these videos periodically, and all the ones I have seen have serious problems. I really recommend the Jerry Miculek "Trigger Job" video; it is the only video I have seen on this subject that is good enough to recommend, and it is really quite good.

I believe what you are referring to is filing the thumbpiece so it can sit a little farther back in its slot in the frame. This is a pretty obscure thing, but it is clearly shown and well explained in Jerry's video.

The idea behind filing the thumbpiece is to reduce the spring pressure between the tip of the center pin and the end of the bolt. Extra pressure in this area puts drag on the cylinder while it turns. Ideally, when the cylinder is closed, the bolt should sit far enough back that there is no pressure on the center pin spring. On most guns, there is clearance in this area and nothing needs to be done. But on some guns it helps to file the thumbpiece so that the bolt can sit a little farther back. This method is demonstrated and explained much better in Jerry's video than I can do here.

Note that I am trying to use the correct S&W part names in this explanation. Here is one schematic that is available online:

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...olvers-sw/10-1

And a note for anyone following along, the "bolt" in S&W terminology is very different than the "bolt" in a Colt. The bolt in a Colt is what S&W calls the cylinder stop, and that is not the part we are talking about here.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by straightshooterjake

I believe what you are referring to is filing the thumbpiece so it can sit a little farther back in its slot in the frame. This is a pretty obscure thing, but it is clearly shown and well explained in Jerry's video.

I didn't see anything in that link about filing, either.

I think Jake covered it well, but I'll just mention that sometimes there's a need/benefit to filing the front of the release or the front face of the release boss: The release pushes the inner cylinder rod forward so the cylinder can open. At the far end, the inner cylinder rod is pushed flush with the outer rod, which releases the engagement of the outer rod with the spring-loaded retaining pin under the barrel. If you look at the release in it's full-forward position, you'll see it's darn close to the frame. In some (rare) cases, the nose of the release will actually contact the frame before the release can push the inner rod fully flush, causing a "hitch" when opening the cylinder. This interference can be relieved by careful filing of the release nose or the leading face of the boss.

As mentioned, this would be rare on factory releases, but some aftermarket releases are commonly too long and benefit from this treatment.

Originally Posted by straightshooterjake

I also want to mention that I have not found any internet videos on S&W trigger jobs that are good enough to recommend. I look at these videos periodically, and all the ones I have seen have serious problems.

Agreed. That link is a good example - there's some bad advice there. Stick with Jake's piece.

[Jeryray]

Great information. For now, I will polish the parts and surfaces. I will try a spent primer on the Wilson hammer spring. I'll see how that works and go from there.

I watched Jerry's shooting. In my day I though I was a fair shooter, but he is unreal.

Nature does not age everyone the same, he has been lucky.

Again, thanks for all the onfo.

If I could only find a good 6" barrell for my 14-3, numrich barrels are NG.

[MrBorland]

Jerry’s not as old as you might think. Most his age are still in the workplace and not even retired yet.

In person, I though he was surprisingly trim & spry, mostly a product of clean living & training you’d expect from an athlete. He’s got a handshake that’ll crack walnuts, too.

[Jeryray]

Ah yes, 45 years ago I was a weightlifter, I worked out with a 30 lb weight straight out in a bullseye stance. Now after my rotator was destroyed, it's 4 lbs ,ax. Or Combat style....

[Jeryray]

I installed the replacement main spring from Wilson combat in the 686. Now factory loads pretty reliable, just once in a while I don't get a strike.

My reloads are very intermittent.

SO I used a small copper shim, bent around the spring.

Reliable on both Factory and reloads now, but SA went to 4lbs, DA went to 9 lbs.

I saw and felt 2 different 686 guns at the range, measured them at 3lbs SA, 8 lbs DA. They both use the same factory Remington 130g UMC.

I have not polished all the parts yet, don't think it will make that much difference, but maybe.