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Old March 12, 2018, 10:45 PM   #176
saleen322
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The 10mm Auto delivers good, efficient power for the person who wants a little more punch balanced with mild/moderate recoil. For a service-self defense pistol the 10 is okay but as the military, FBI, and a lot of law enforcement realize; the 9mm provides the most practical answer to that application. The 40 S&W is fine for defense and a maybe a 10mm Auto is not wanted because just like in revolvers, sometimes a 38 Special is fine and you don't need or want the 357 magnum. For the person who wants a little more power or who hunts with handguns, the 10mm is an option. It is all in what you want.
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Old March 13, 2018, 09:38 AM   #177
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Doubletap has been providing hot 10mm loadings for over a decade and a half and Buffalobore has been selling their "Heavy 10mm" for at least 13 years. If availability of full-power 10mm from boutique makers is what is bringing back the 10mm, the comeback should have started back in the early to mid 2000s, not in the late 2010s.
Actually, if you look at the rate of adoption among a lot of shooters 15 years might be considered a lightning quick transition!

May just be that a lot of people bought guns over the last few years and don't need anything new, so they are looking for something a little bit odd-ball to spend their money on.
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Old March 13, 2018, 02:28 PM   #178
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May just be that a lot of people bought guns over the last few years and don't need anything new, so they are looking for something a little bit odd-ball to spend their money on.
Perfectly explains my purchase of a 10MM a few years ago.
Din't have a 10, didn't have a Glock.......

VoilĂ , Glock 20 in the safe!
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Old March 13, 2018, 04:07 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa
People who aren't overly concerned with reloading safety can load nearly any caliber a lot hotter than what the manuals recommend. Book loads for 180gr bullets in the .40S&W top out around 1100fps. The fact that someone has managed to load a particular caliber to levels far exceeding what is recommended is more of a commentary on that reloader's prudence than it is an endorsement of the caliber in question.
.

To be fair, Hodgdon for many years listed a 180gr JHP doing 1160 fps from a .40 S&W 4" test bbl. To get an extra ~140 fps (to hit 1300 fps) with almost an extra 1.5" of barrel and .5 (half) grain of powder shouldn't be insanely hard to believe, I've done it.
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Old March 13, 2018, 04:25 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by CastleBravo
If you can load 200gr @ 1,200+ and 220gr @ 1,100+ in a .40 S&W without blowing up your gun I'd love to see it. From some minimal safe distance. And maybe behind a plexiglass wall.

Penetration is king in hunting anything of consequence, and in handguns that requires solid bullets with high sectional density moving at speed. .40 S&W and .45 ACP can't compete with 10mm in that area, at least not safely.

e: Federal 180gr CastCore .357 Magnum @1130 FPS vs. Buffalo Bore 10mm 220gr HCFN @ 1,140 FPS from a Glock 20 is an obvious comparison, comparable SD and velocity but with a bigger bullet. That's really what 10mm is for.
Nothing wrong with the 10mm at all, but I've ran a 200gr WFNGC from a Glock 23 w/KKM 4" barrel to just over 1,155 fps average, very accurate and low standard deviation.

I would like to point out that with solid bullets, like the above 200gr WFNGC, that you're not going to see much, if any, difference in how far they penetrate even if running 100-200 fps faster. There's actually a point were faster actually hurts penetration. A 200gr hardcast running 1175 from a Glock 22 or 1275 from a Glock 20 will both punch a hole through rather large animals, so presuming proper shot placement, where's the 10mm's huge advantage?

I don't buy the 10mm being safer argument either, in reloading them both (.40+10mm) I've noticed that 10mm brass seems weaker than .40 brass. They both max out at nearly the same pressure, 10mm holds a little more powder, so the 10mm really shouldn't be that much faster, and it isn't when you load them both warm.

A .45 ACP can run a 250gr hardcast (same sectional density as a 200gr .40/10mm) to over 1000 fps from a 5" bbl, and that too will cut deep. Heck, some will say it's a better killer than the faster 200gr 10mm because it cuts a bigger hole. I have a 10mm (Glock 20) and it's a good gun, but it's not really a step up over the .40 or .45, it's just another option.
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Old March 13, 2018, 08:00 PM   #181
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1. Guys that for some reason, hate the .40. Maybe they feel the 10mm would have been more popular if it weren't for the .40 S&W. People may love 9mm and .45, hate the .40 with a passion yet love the 10mm, which makes zero sense.
I was formerly a .40 hater and maybe YOU say it makes no sense but it comes off a little pompous if you have figured out everything and leave nobody to come to their own conclusions since clearly, you have made the ultimate determinations...

In days gone by, the Smith & Wesson 10xx series was a highly capable platform for the 10mm and it was purely obvious that S&W ended production of them because they saw their own 10xx pistols taking away from their project baby, a cartridge that was supposed to revolutionize the landscape and also carried their name in the .40 S&W.

Why I really didn't like the cartridge was because while the 10mm guns were large frame .45 class guns running a smaller diameter slug, leaving more barrel and more chamber and more gun frame and mass... the .40cal guns were a bigger hole in a 9mm barrel/chamber and shoehorned in to a 9mm sized gun. And what was -THE- most prevalent handloading abomination in the mid-to-late 90's? Guys blowing up .40cal guns. Mostly Glocks, plenty of others, mostly because they were sloppy, stupid handloaders but helped greatly by the .40cal round and pistols that were not "over built" like 10's... but under-built 9mm's with bigger holes and less steel around the chamber.

I quit hating the .40cal as I watched it's popularity fade and I watched Glock engineer (unspoken!) improvements in case head support. Powder and published data sources printed bold-faced warnings to reckless and careless handloaders and eventually, turkeys quit having so many catastrophes.

S&W continued to offer the 10mm on and off in REVOLVERS, so let's make no argument about the pistols "not selling well enough to keep in production..." They made over 50,000 of them and retail was approaching six bills, fat cash in 1992.

I always liked that the mere existence of the FortyCal made component bullets always in high production.
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Old March 15, 2018, 06:58 AM   #182
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I saw this on another forum, some guy had it as a signature line.

"10mm: because people are getting fatter every day."

He might be onto something, people are getting fatter every day, at least in USA!
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Old March 15, 2018, 07:04 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Ruger45LC View Post
1. A lot of people hate the .40 S&W, some of them are 10mm guys that for some reason, hate the .40. Maybe they feel the 10mm would have been more popular if it weren't for the .40 S&W. People may love 9mm and .45, hate the .40 with a passion yet love the 10mm, which makes zero sense.
I'm a relatively new shooter, for what its worth. I don't hate the .40 but I'd rather have more capacity in a 9mm or more power in a .44 Magnum, for example.
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Old March 15, 2018, 07:07 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring View Post
I saw this on another forum, some guy had it as a signature line.

"10mm: because people are getting fatter every day."

He might be onto something, people are getting fatter every day, at least in USA!
It reminds me of a scene in the John Wick 2 movie where he is on the back of a sumo wrestler shooting him with little effect until he head caps him...
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Old March 15, 2018, 07:13 AM   #185
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When I was a "new shooter" I was CRAZY about standard capacity mags. I felt cheated because the Dems had banned anything over 10 rounds. I spent a lot of money on 2nd-rate production high cap mags for pistols I didn't yet own, because I "might" buy the pistols later. In 2004 the mag ban was lifted (expired) so I stocked up on a few Mec Gars and original factory mags, some even marked "LEO USE ONLY."

These days, I have little desire for double stack mags.....I've been betting my life on 5 shots (J-frame) for years now and feel pretty decent with that. I'd rather have fewer of a bigger round in a mag than more of a smaller round. .40 S&W isn't part of my defensive battery but it might become part of my IDPA battery. I don't want anything banned but I don't feel the need for so much firepower. You may have a similar experience as you age also.

Last edited by In The Ten Ring; March 15, 2018 at 07:19 AM.
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Old March 16, 2018, 10:28 AM   #186
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200 grains at about 1200 fps is my favorite woods walking load, and I like my 10mm 1911 better for field carry than my .357 mags.

Shooting 10mm downloaded to .40 specs is just silly IMO, just get the .40
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