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December 24, 2010, 06:33 PM | #51 | |
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My opinion? A mil-surp rifle, regardless of what it is, should be left the hell alone IF it's in good useable condition. If it's at the point of diminishing return, then sportorize/hack at will. On the same token (and heartbreakingly more important), the current owner has the right to do whatever he/she wants...period. It's their gun. It's their money. It's their business...
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December 25, 2010, 10:18 AM | #52 | |
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You know how you can buy all the Mosins you want now for ~$100? Well, it was that way once with lots of guns now considered "rare and collectible". Time, attrition, and the market will separate the collectible wheat from the cheap milsurp chaff. |
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December 25, 2010, 10:43 AM | #53 |
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I remember when you could get Mosins for 9.00 and nobody wanted them.
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December 25, 2010, 01:27 PM | #54 |
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I'm reminded of the story about the most collectible/valuable postage stamps -- only two of them remained in the entire world. When the owner of one of the stamps passed, the owner of the other bought it at the estate auction for a record price. Later, when asked how he liked having the two most valuable stamps in the world, the owner replied, "You don't understand, now's there's just one."
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December 25, 2010, 09:22 PM | #55 | |
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December 27, 2010, 01:10 AM | #56 |
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I was just a kid with a rusty single shot shot gun when I saw an add for "Russian Trench Guns". If I remember correctly they were $15.00 dollars, but may have been 12.00. Anyway, I sent for my honest to Charley first deer rifle and got it in the mail. The damn thing was almost as long as I was tall, but that wasn't the worst part. The only 7.62x54 hunting ammo you could buy was Norma and one box cost more than I paid for the rifle. I don't know how old it is but it has a hex receiver. I never saw any cheaper than 12.00 to 15.00 dollars but it is possible. I still have it in original condition and actually did kill a deer with it once. If I had not been given an old rifle shortly after buying the Russian one, I absolutely would have taken a hacksaw to it. It was like walking around the woods with a '57 Pontiac axle. Other than lever actions, the only hunting rifles I ever used were military reworks or original military guns. Buy a Model 70? Why buy a copy when you can hunt with an original Mauser?
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December 27, 2010, 04:27 AM | #57 |
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Tamara the ones I saw were at a gun show in the late 70's.
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December 27, 2010, 12:12 PM | #58 |
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Well, with ex-military guns unable to be imported between GCA '68 and FOPA '86, and Communist Bloc guns being scarce as hen's teeth before improved trade relations with China in the late '80s and the collapse of the Warsaw Pact in the early '90s, I just don't remember Mosins being all that common at all before about eighteen or twenty years ago. Oh, sure, I'd run into the occasional WWI-era Remington-made Mosin that never got delivered before the Czar fell and the Russians chickened out of WWII, but they weren't all that common and a lot of them had been (unsafely) converted to .30-'06.
Maybe they were more common where you were than they were in Georgia. |
December 27, 2010, 05:18 PM | #59 |
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Years later I was in my '20s and living in L.A. I used to hit the hock shops looking for deals and the shops were full of Russian and Chinese rifles and pistols. You could not get ammo for them and like the Japanese rifles were pretty worthless. I suspect they were Korean war bring backs. When you could still buy guns through the mail, most were sold by sports shops, department stores, and hock shops, not importers.
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December 27, 2010, 05:39 PM | #60 | |
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Until the Iron Curtain fell, Mosins were comparatively rare compared to Mausers. (And the ones that were around were shunned for just the reason you mentioned: Ammo availability. With the only source for ammo being Norma, they suffered the same problem Arisakas have always suffered from, which is that the rifle's Blue Book value fluctuated dramatically based on how many rounds were in the magazine. Speaking of comparative rarity, this is why Arisakas and Carcanos have always been comparatively rare, at least when measured against Mausers in the '50s and '60s and Mosins in the '90s and '00s: The latter two have been imported in the hundreds of thousands while the former were imported in trickles by comparison...) |
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December 28, 2010, 09:32 AM | #61 |
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My Father has a few of these. Back in the 60's and early 70's Golden State Arms imported a couple thousand Swiss 1911sr Long rifles. They were all sporterized and rechambered to .308. You can still fiond them once in a while, but I can tell you that the process was super professional and ours shoot moa with a 175gr SMK or Berger VLD.
They named them Alpine Sporters. Some of the finishes are super refined and all of the wood was Walnut. I really like the feel and accuracy of these conversions, but I'd never ever convert a 1911 or k11 of my own. Latigo
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January 4, 2011, 04:29 PM | #62 |
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I have my grandfather's sporterized M1917 (Winchester) in .30-06. It mean's as much or more to me sporterized as it would as a mil-surp. It put a ton of dinner on his family's table and I'm sure it was an upgrade to what ever he was using before he got it. I still don't know if he sporterized or if he bought it that way. Either way, its an Enfield that I can do what ever I please with now.
Last edited by OscarTurner; January 6, 2011 at 10:23 AM. Reason: added pic |
January 10, 2011, 03:34 AM | #63 |
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I generally don't like to see old military rifles like Mausers and Enfields Sporterized, particularly not the way a lot of them used to be "sporterized" which was just to saw off some of the wood furnishings. But there are exceptions. I've seen some nice sporterized mausers - but I've wondered if they didn't cost more than the owner could have bought a new Remington bolt gun for.
But there are some guns that just cry out for customization. There's a thread over on the pistol colum about S&W and Colt Model 1917 45 cal. revolvers, including the S&W Brazillian contract revolvers from 1937. Everybody on the forum who owns one of these 45 cal service revolvers has been invited to show a picture of theirs. These run the gamut from Brazilian contract guns like mine that are beat up but still original, to pristine military models that I'd hate to see anybody customize, to between the wars commercial guns, to guns of all types that have been customized, some radically. Some of those customized guns have got me drooling; particularly the ones that are cut down like the S&W Model 1917 that was used in the first Indiana Jones movie, and a couple of others that have been chopped down into 45 cal. snubbies. One guy with one of the last posts had a beat up old Brazilian gun like mine, and you should see what he's done with it. It's FINE. Take a look at it on that thread. I don't think you'll find a lot of fault with it. |
January 10, 2011, 04:17 AM | #64 |
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I believe some of you may not be seeing the bigger picture here.I am buying as many of the really fine sporterized 03's and K-98's as my budget will allow.These rifles represent a tremendous oppertunity to buy essentially hand made and fitted rifles at fire sale prices. Because these are truly beautiful firearms both in function and form they have enduring value over time.
One hundred years from now imagine the comparitive value of a Reminton Stainless with a composit stock or an AR compaired to a butter knife set trigger sporterized K-98 with hand select euro-walnut wood. |
January 10, 2011, 05:48 AM | #65 | |
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January 10, 2011, 06:47 AM | #66 |
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Oh, collecting vintage Jerry 98 sporters or old-school '03s could be a hobby in itself.
If a rifle's a basket case, I generally have no qualms about using the action to build something nice, rather than condemning it to a life as a wall-hanging tomato stake. |
January 10, 2011, 09:30 AM | #67 |
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Rifles are made to be shot. I sporterized a Yugo M48. I doubt (at least for the next 40 years or so) it would ever be a collectable. I would never carry the full military dress Yugo into the field for deer or any other hunting. I am proud of the sportster I created.
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January 10, 2011, 09:44 AM | #68 |
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Only 21 million VW Beatles we manufactured world wide by the way...
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January 10, 2011, 10:12 AM | #69 | |
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January 10, 2011, 11:52 AM | #70 | |
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Last edited by jtb1967; January 10, 2011 at 01:47 PM. |
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January 10, 2011, 08:45 PM | #71 | |
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January 10, 2011, 09:53 PM | #72 |
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Amen.
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January 10, 2011, 10:04 PM | #73 |
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jtb1967,
Tell me about it.
I bought my first Enfield, a horribly bubba-ized No.4 Mk.I, for right around a hunnerd bucks in early '86. Not a few months later, FOPA '86 went through and before you know it, the market was glutted with fresh intact imports for the same price... |
January 11, 2011, 12:09 AM | #74 | |
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Another great condition M48 turned into a fudd's wet dream. Next time you get an unmolested surplus rifle, message me and I'll trade you a random fudd deer gun for it.
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January 11, 2011, 01:00 AM | #75 | |
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