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Old December 17, 2017, 11:31 PM   #1
nightwolf1974
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3" vs. 2.75" buckshot

Been having trouble finding the 3" Remington 000 buckshot I love to shoot in my 870 Tactical, so I've been thinking of dropping back to the 2.75" Remington 000 buckshot.

My question for y'all is.............

Would you feel under powered in a defensive exchange, at 12 to 15 yards* by dropping back to the 2.75" 000 buckshot load...vs. the 3" 000 buckshot load?

The 870 is my travel/camping shotgun, and I take an undisclosed amount of spare shells with me.

*My personal belief is after 15yds, it's handgun(1911, Glock, or AR pistol) time.*
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Old December 18, 2017, 12:47 AM   #2
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Not at all.
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Old December 18, 2017, 08:09 AM   #3
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My HD shotguns don't even have 3" chambers, good old 9 pellet OO buck has been doing the trick for over 100 years.
And get some federal "flight control" buck and/or slugs and it turns your 15 yard limit to more like 50.
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Old December 18, 2017, 10:05 AM   #4
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2-3/4" #1 is my preference. Inside 15 yards with 000, would not think it would make much of a difference at all.
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Old December 18, 2017, 10:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by nightwolf1974 View Post
Would you feel under powered in a defensive exchange, at 12 to 15 yards* by dropping back to the 2.75" 000 buckshot load...vs. the 3" 000 buckshot load?
No.
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Old December 18, 2017, 11:00 AM   #6
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I'd consider 2 3/4" loads as an improvement.

The only time I find 3" shells of any help is with steel shot. To be effective you normally have to go up about 2 shot sizes when comparing steel to lead. The 3" shells help get the pellet count back up to a reasonable number.
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Old December 18, 2017, 11:09 AM   #7
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if 2 3/4" buck is good enough for our troops, id go with 2 3/4" too.
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Old December 18, 2017, 05:05 PM   #8
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Not a bit. If the bad guy wasn't satisfied with nine 00 buck pellets I'd just send him another nine.
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Old December 18, 2017, 07:27 PM   #9
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The 3" #1 Buck 24 pellet load might be the best overall personal defense load ever made for the 12 gauge shotgun. That's a massive payload, nearly triple the pellet of a standard police 00 load, but the pellets are only slightly smaller at .30 cal vs 00 .33 cal.
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Old December 18, 2017, 07:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I'd consider 2 3/4" loads as an improvement.



The only time I find 3" shells of any help is with steel shot. To be effective you normally have to go up about 2 shot sizes when comparing steel to lead. The 3" shells help get the pellet count back up to a reasonable number.

Agreed...

I only use 3” for hunting, and even then, it wasn’t that big of a difference. Don’t hunt too much anymore, but didn’t even see the need to move to 3.5” when both my 11-87s were 3”.

I like the 3” ability, but not because I regularly shoot them. Rather be able to shoot whatever I have on hand, if need be.
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Old December 18, 2017, 08:57 PM   #11
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For general purpose / defense outdoor use try Flite Control cartridges.

Federal Flite-Control Buckshot put tight patterns and cylinder bore in the same sentence!
Three inch 12 pellet 00B @ 1325 from industry test barrels.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tecontrol-wad#

For outdoor defense buckshot against large predators go with Dixie Tri-Ball:

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
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Old December 18, 2017, 10:25 PM   #12
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Thanks guys!!! I truly value the input!
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Old December 19, 2017, 02:37 PM   #13
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agreed

Less recoil and flash with the standard 2-3/4 load, allowing faster follow up. The three inch shell can be a real thumper and it's slightly added wallop doesn't really matter at SD shotgun ranges. Heck, some LE outfits have gone to a low recoil, 8 pellet 00 load.
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Old December 20, 2017, 11:28 AM   #14
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Federal Flite-Control Buckshot put tight patterns and cylinder bore in the same sentence!
Three inch 12 pellet 00B @ 1325 from industry test barrels.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tecontrol-wad#

Note: The 3" twelve pellet 00B Flite-Control round is a 1 & 3/8 ounce, (600 grain), load.

The low recoil 8 pellet 2.75" version of the 00B Flite-Control round is a 9/10 ounce load.

The 3" Dixie Tri-Ball is a 2.2 ounce load.

Dixie Tri-Ball:

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
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Old December 20, 2017, 01:38 PM   #15
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I’d stick with 2 3/4 OOO Buck. The recoil is lighter, but eight .36 caliber lead balls sure make a mess of the intended target.
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Old December 21, 2017, 10:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4terrific View Post
I’d stick with 2 3/4 OOO Buck. The recoil is lighter, but eight .36 caliber lead balls sure make a mess of the intended target.
American made factory loaded 000B usually measures .345" to .350" in diameter with the weight running 61 to 63 grains.
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Old December 22, 2017, 09:43 AM   #17
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American made factory loaded 000B usually measures .345" to .350" in diameter with the weight running 61 to 63 grains.


I bet you had to look that up. (Wikipedia?)

Remington states .36 caliber on the box.
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Old December 22, 2017, 09:49 AM   #18
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3" shells use the same amount of powder at the 2.75. So the same amount of powder
is going to drive the 2.75 shot harder...
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Old December 22, 2017, 01:16 PM   #19
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If you're in a firefight at 12 to 15 yards, you're already in a pickle. You'll have no time to think or worry about it.
Difference between 3" and 2.75" is the number of pellets and the recoil. Both felt and actual recoil. However, if you're going to use a 3" Mag, you're better off with #4 buck. Gives you 41 6mm pellets. 27 pellets in a 2.75" shell. Vs 10 of 000 buck.
"...your 15 yard limit to more like 50..." Using plain rifled slugs out of a smooth bore with rifle sights, you can expect 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards.
"...Remington states .36 caliber on the box..." Calibre is flexible to the manufacturers. .36 calibre can be .375–.380 inch diameter. .38 calibre is .357" diameter.
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Old December 22, 2017, 02:27 PM   #20
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#4 buck

Aside from the fact that the OP was inquiring regards 00 or 000 buck, I can't agree with the suggestion for #4B as a GP buckshot load. Quite a few agencies went to #4 buck in the late 70's, early 80's. Then they shot a few felons with the stuff, and the results were not all that impressive. I believe nearly all switched back to larger buck within the decade.

Those 6mm pellets do give one a higher pellet count, but less mass which effects penetration. Lengthen the distance of your SD shots, or add an outer garment, and #4 buck may not do so well.
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Old December 22, 2017, 06:21 PM   #21
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I suppose my biggest reservation about shooting 000 buckshot in a 2-3/4" shell is 5 or 6 pellets of 000 vs 9 or 10 pellets of 00 buckshot. Since you are talking 15 yds, pattern size is not really a consideration, and energy is still very high for the smaller shot size. So pattern the gun with both and choose what shoots the best.
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Old December 22, 2017, 11:42 PM   #22
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I consider ANYTHING after 15yds AR-15 time! I've shot plenty of living and non-living things with shotguns over the years, and know at what ranges a 18" or 20" barrel with cyl. bore choke( and other lengths and chokes) will do and won't do. Although I carry slugs in a side saddle or speed feed stock, I feel they only are needed out to the 50 yard line....when nothing else is handy. Nevermind the legal aspects of a justified shooting at 150 feet.
I've always considered the home defense shotgun as a close quarters defensive weapon, and that is what I base my tactics on.
Thank you all for your input.
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Old December 23, 2017, 03:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwolf1974 View Post
I consider ANYTHING after 15yds AR-15 time! I've shot plenty of living and non-living things with shotguns over the years, and know at what ranges a 18" or 20" barrel with cyl. bore choke( and other lengths and chokes) will do and won't do. Although I carry slugs in a side saddle or speed feed stock, I feel they only are needed out to the 50 yard line....when nothing else is handy. Nevermind the legal aspects of a justified shooting at 150 feet.
I've always considered the home defense shotgun as a close quarters defensive weapon, and that is what I base my tactics on.
Thank you all for your input.
+1

In PRACTICAL use, the maximum effective range for buckshot against human targets is approx. 25 yards, and roughly 50 yards for slugs.

After that, and a .223 weapons platform makes eminently more tactical sense, able to reach out to 600 yards or more with ease and incredible accuracy with low recoil and rapid follow up shots.
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Old December 23, 2017, 05:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by t4terrific View Post
I bet you had to look that up. (Wikipedia?)

Remington states .36 caliber on the box.
Measured.

What is on the box is the "nominal diameter," which by industry standards can be + .015" Thus the largest "in spec" 00B is .345" and the smallest "in spec" 000B is .345"
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Old December 23, 2017, 05:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwolf1974 View Post
I consider ANYTHING after 15yds AR-15 time! I've shot plenty of living and non-living things with shotguns over the years, and know at what ranges a 18" or 20" barrel with cyl. bore choke( and other lengths and chokes) will do and won't do. Although I carry slugs in a side saddle or speed feed stock, I feel they only are needed out to the 50 yard line....when nothing else is handy. Nevermind the legal aspects of a justified shooting at 150 feet.
I've always considered the home defense shotgun as a close quarters defensive weapon, and that is what I base my tactics on.
Thank you all for your input.
At residential hallway distances none of the pattern enhancing developments in buckshot ammunition, at least since the introduction of the pin-fire breech loader of the mid-19th century, make any meaningful difference.
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