Advice on Solvent Trap Kit

[Jstarling]

I found this site with a complete Solvent Trap Kit http://www.solventtrap.net/ and wanted to get your advice. I am aware I have to file Form 1 and the proper tax stamp before any modification but I needed some advice because I am new to this.

I always liked doing my own things from scratch and this is a complete kit and cheaper than others I have found. Any advice/suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

[Skans]

If you are buying one of these kits to turn it into a silencer (legally, of course) wouldn't you want to know what the db reduction would be? How would it stack up to a factory built silencer? I notice there isn't anything on the website about how effective it would be as a silencer, should someone buy one with that in mind. If I'm going to go through the hassle of getting ATF approval to own a silencer, I'd want to know exactly what I'm getting.

[Tom Servo]

It really seems expensive for what you get.

That said, anything you attach to that kit (oil filter or whatnot) will need to be serialized and registered.

[Sharkbite]

There was a guy at my outdoor range a few months ago (last Fall?) with an oil filter supressor. I didnt ask about stamps or stuff...just watched him shoot it

I was shooting my SWR Warlock II and his filter sounded about the same. That got me looking into the oil filter suppressor as a cheap alternative (properly stamped, of course)

I found it not to be worthwhile. You can not just change out the filter when it gets old. The filter and the adapter need to be S/n together. If you buy the unit from them on a form 4 then you can send the filter back and they will re-serialize a filter and return it to you

Doesn't seem worth it to me. Not when there are SO many good 22lr cans out there that will last a lifetime

[rickyrick]

Why call it a solvent trap or cleaning kit when people are intending on making it a suppressor?

I see end caps for mag lights as well being called solvent traps.

[Sharkbite]

Why call it a solvent trap or cleaning kit when people are intending on making it a suppressor

The company making these, makes both. A Silencer made out of an oil filter (NFA registered) and a solvent trap that is not NFA and would be a felony to use as a silencer.

There are LOTS of things that can be made into illegal silencers. The key is to not do it

[rickyrick]

Good advice I'd say.

[Ricklin]

Let's just ASSume for a moment this is all kept legal.

Consider you end up with a pound or two hanging off the end of your barrel. I think not.......

[Skans]

Oil filters, freeze plugs, soda-bottle adapters, potatoes and duct tape - if someone wants an illegal suppressor there's no stopping them. Criminals will make them and not blink or think twice about it. Law abiding people will continue to fill out ludicrous paperwork, make absurd trusts, wait 9 months for "mother-may-I" to say "yes you may" and pay $200 to comply with the law.

Meanwhile, what these "kits" prove is that the manufacturers of silencers must have a heck of a profit margin - no wonder there are so many manufactures currently. Oh, and FWIW, I don't see why the company just doesn't call them 80% Silencer kits!

My biggest fear is that BATFE teams up with Bill Ruger's ghost and the National Coalition to Ban Handguns (n/k/a Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) and REQUIRE all firearms to have sound suppressors which reduce the muzzle sound by 40db. See what that does for concealed carry! Suddenly those cool 007 silencers look more like California-style motorcycle mufflers; Ref: SB 435 the Motorcycle Anti-Tampering Act which gives police the authority to ticket motorcycles with non-compliant exhaust systems.

(Silencers......Bah humbug!)

[Jstarling]

If you are buying one of these kits to turn it into a silencer (legally, of course) wouldn't you want to know what the db reduction would be? How would it stack up to a factory built silencer? I notice there isn't anything on the website about how effective it would be as a silencer, should someone buy one with that in mind. If I'm going to go through the hassle of getting ATF approval to own a silencer, I'd want to know exactly what I'm getting.

It appears we think alike because this is one of the main questions I had, and I actually called the owner of solventtrap.net and spoke with him. He said that he mainly uses his solvent trap with an M&P 15-22 and an AR-15, according to him the suppressed M&P 15-22 sounds like a paintball gun (45-50 dB) and the suppressed AR-15 sounds like the M&P 15-22 unsuppressed (85-90 dB). He also said he will have proof of this in an upcoming video.

It really seems expensive for what you get.

That said, anything you attach to that kit (oil filter or whatnot) will need to be serialized and registered.

I checked around looking at the other kits, this is by far the cheapest for the quality. A comparable kit from sd tactical runs around $200 and the one from preppers discount is $180.

Let's just ASSume for a moment this is all kept legal.

Consider you end up with a pound or two hanging off the end of your barrel. I think not.......

I asked about this and he said the entire kit, when put together, weighs less than a pound. Thanks again for all the advice.

[Tom Servo]

I checked around looking at the other kits, this is by far the cheapest for the quality. A comparable kit from sd tactical runs around $200 and the one from preppers discount is $180.

It depends. If you're looking to shoot rimfire, there are silencers that last a lifetime in that price range. A pistol silencer will be a little more, but not having to send it back every few dozen rounds would be an advantage.

For high-powered rifle? I don't see it working well at all.

Why call it a solvent trap or cleaning kit when people are intending on making it a suppressor?

Do a search for the phrase "solvent trap." We've discussed it a few times. While I'm sure some folks take the legal route, many others are probably just grabbing an oil filter from Pep Boys and screwing it on. When these came out, many of the folks selling them did so with a "nudge and wink" approach to the legality. Others falsely claimed that the adapter was the registered part.

It could be used for catching solvents and patches when cleaning a rifle, but there are certainly cheaper alternatives.

A Silencer made out of an oil filter (NFA registered) and a solvent trap that is not NFA and would be a felony to use as a silencer.

Folks, let's actually read up on the relevant laws before offering interpretations.

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

The adapter doesn't contribute to sound suppression. It's just a dongle that hangs off the barrel.

[Sharkbite]

Tom,

How would taking a non tax stamped "solvent trap" kit and using it a a sliencer, not be a felony?

Please enlighten me. You buy the "kit" (adaptor and filter) screw it on you favorite 22 and fire a shot thru it. You have just made an unregistered suppresor...have you not? Is that not a felony?

Quote:
a solvent trap that is not NFA and would be a felony to use as a silencer.

[Skans]

How would taking a non tax stamped "solvent trap" kit and using it a a sliencer, not be a felony?

If you attempted to use a solvent trap kit as a silencer by screwing the parts together and then screwing it onto your barrel, it would more likely act as a very loud bullet stop and barrel destruction device than a silencer.

For these kits to do anything more than trap solvent, it requires drilling and perhaps other modification. If you take an 80% AR receiver (fancy paper weight) and turn it into a pistol, it will be regulated just as are all other handguns. Kind of the same thing, just regulated under different laws.

[Sharkbite]

Skans

You are correct about the "kit" linked to by the OP. I have no experience with that version.

I was refering to the Oil filter version of a year ago.

[Gunfixr]

The solvent trap thing on your barrel is all legal, until a hole gets in the end of it. Whether you shot the hole in there or drilled it, then, its a suppressor.


These things seem cheap in the beginning, but if you shoot much, the cost is just going to continue to rise. The filter has to be serialized to the adapter, and the only legal way to replace it after its shot out is to send it back, or maybe to any 07/sot and get a new filter serialized to it. If another manufacturer does it, hes going to have to make sure to use the same filter model, so as not to change the oal.
Thats going to cost at least another $50 every time, after the $200 initial investment (not counting tax). If you shoot high power rifles, youll be sending it back pretty often.
Its just a matter of time before youve spent the money to get a lifetime suppressor, and youll still be spending after that.
Only way to avoid it, mostly, is to stay rimfire, or maybe pistol. Thats a big, honking, heavy thing to hold at the end of a 22 or pistol.

[Jim Watson]

The oil filter adapter is reminiscent of the soda bottle muzzle adapter of a few years ago. How many serialized and registered soda bottles do you think there were? I figure about as many as serialized and registered oil filters.

These things are a convenient route to an illegal silencer and calling them "solvent traps" does not make them cleaning products.

Similar deal to the quite detailed blueprints for an AR Auto Sear "for educational purposes."

[Skans]

These things are a convenient route to an illegal silencer and calling them "solvent traps" does not make them cleaning products.

Perhaps this is correct with the true oil-filter silencers. But, the kit that was presented in the OP's topic is worthy of discussion. What if someone comes up with an 80% suppressor kit that is as durable, light weight and effective as a $1,000 suppressor? If I were in the market for a silencer, I might go this rout for $150, register it on a form 1 and then finish it myself. Nothing wrong with that.

[Gunfixr]

Its going to be hard to come up with an 80% suppressor kit that doesnt already require registration.
While you can make a partial receiver, and drop the rest of the parts in the box for a firearm, this wont work with a suppressor.
Endcaps and baffles are "suppressor parts", and controlled just like the tube, or the whole thing. Probably, spacers are as well. So, you end up with a "kit" that just has a piece of pipe, two solid, or close to it, end pieces, and a bunch of solid baffle blanks. You might have the spacers.
It takes so much work to finish, you are almost making it from scratch. With the price of small amount materials online, unless you want to make it out of something exotic, its just cheaper to start from scratch.
Not to mention, its a whole lot easier to make a k baffle off the end of a piece of bar stock sticking out from the chuck, than while holding the already to length part in the chuck.

[Skans]

Its going to be hard to come up with an 80% suppressor kit that doesnt already require registration.

That's basically what they are peddling here: Solvent Trap Kit http://www.solventtrap.net/

Watch the youtube - he's not building a solvent trap. It's basically an unfinished silencer kit and the seller's not trying to hide this. I don't see anything wrong with this - I think he even throws in a trust template so the buyer can go through the legal registration process before making the kit into a silencer.

[Gunfixr]

The problem isnt whether we see a problem, its whether atf sees a problem.
I would want to know that that kit is legal as purchased.
If atf has not approved that kit, and does in fact come out and say the kit is an illegal kit, containing contraband, they will likely seek to acquire all kits sold. All online sales with cc are trackable, so they will get pretty much all of them.
When they knock on your door, you hand it over, they say "have a nice day", and thats the end of it.
If you f1 a suppressor out of it, that will not save you. You cannot make something un contraband. So, you will lose the purchase price, registration tax, and your labor.

So, prior to purchasing this kit, i would want from the seller a copy of the atf approval letter saying it does not contain suppressor parts.

Really, looking at it, most of the parts are available cheaply on the open market.

[Skans]

So, prior to purchasing this kit, i would want from the seller a copy of the atf approval letter

Or, just calendar this for 1 year from now and see if the guy is still selling suppressor/solvent trap kits. If its around 1 year from now, most likely BATFE knows about it (I'm sure it already knows about it) and has decided there's noting illegal about it.

[Jstarling]

The problem isnt whether we see a problem, its whether atf sees a problem.
I would want to know that that kit is legal as purchased.
If atf has not approved that kit, and does in fact come out and say the kit is an illegal kit, containing contraband, they will likely seek to acquire all kits sold. All online sales with cc are trackable, so they will get pretty much all of them.
When they knock on your door, you hand it over, they say "have a nice day", and thats the end of it.
If you f1 a suppressor out of it, that will not save you. You cannot make something un contraband. So, you will lose the purchase price, registration tax, and your labor.

So, prior to purchasing this kit, i would want from the seller a copy of the atf approval letter saying it does not contain suppressor parts.

Really, looking at it, most of the parts are available cheaply on the open market.

Solvent traps have been available to purchase online from multiple retailers and have been since 2012

And I checked according to the ATF, https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ition-silencer

Form 1's exist to allow someone to construct an NFA item. What you make it out of is up to you. It's the functionality that the atf Cares about and as long as you file your form 1 and get your tax stamp before modifications - no issues. The paperwork is probably the longest and most mundane part of any task.

[Gunfixr]

"what you make it out of is up to you".

If you make a suppressor out of contraband material, it is still contraband, that is fact, which i know personally from two different examples.
One was homebuilding a firearm from a "gun parts kit" that had been declared contraband after they were imported and it was later discovered that the importer lied, the receivers were cut incorrectly. They managed to collect most of those kits. But, several in the "home building" groups tried to find a way to legally build these, all were told they would still be contraband.
When the first gen gsg5 sd model came on the market, not long after, the larger dummy suppresor was deemed a "suppressor" by atf, and declared contraband. They were rounded up. I personally called and talked to atf about, as an 07/sot, registering one of these and making a true suppresor out of it.
They said no, as once contraband, always contraband, it could not be registered, and made legal.

This is not like the first "solvent trap kits", as they were oil filter sets. So yes, they have been out awhile, but things have changed as well. You can look at this kit and see what it is. If it were a true solvent trap, it wouldnt need 5 or 6 cups stacked in it to catch things. A simple tube with both ends closed, and one end set up for muzzle attachment would suffice.


Do what you want, i personally do not care. I am only trying to inform, so that people can save grief down the road. If they declare these kits contraband, your registerig it wont change a thing, they will still demand it. Argue with them if you wish.

[Skans]

I wouldn't worry too much about whether the silencer kit/solvent trap will be declared illegal in the future by BATFE. Your investment is about $350 total. Form 1 it; build it; shoot the heck out of it - you will have gotten your money's worth and had some fun for under $400. You will also know if you really want to invest in a real silencer or not and have a lot more working knowledge to evaluate your next one. So, if/when BATFE comes a knockin; show them your form 1 and then just hand it over and say "thanks".

[peggysue]

However there are States in the USA who do not allow one to own silencers.. really