Friend breaks up an attempted robbery!

[icedog88]

BlackFeather, while I might cast a glance your way,more because you are visibly armed than anything, you are still welcome in my store. But,that being said, I don't give a rat's behind WHY the criminal commited the crime. Just as it makes no difference WHO committed the crime. My dander got up because the question was asked blatantly what the race of the criminal was. As if to say Blacks only commit these crimes or whites only commit this type and this is how you train against this mentality. What a crock. What? Now that he was let go and he was black we now know his mentality? Or because he is black,there is a certain way to deal mentally with him? Neither one makes much sense. There is no tactical course offered to deal with different races or training class that targets how to anticipate Chinese criminals. See what I mean? Horse pucky!

[Skadoosh]

okay...since no one here seems up for a citizen's arrest, back to my "smile for the camera" comment. I would have even used my smartphone and taken a short video of his face from various angles...

[MJ45]

just goes to show, life can get heated in the melting pot.

[Ringolevio]

If you smile at me
Then I will understand
'Cause that is something everybody everywhere
does in the same language.
-- from "Wooden Ships", by D. Crosby, S. Stills and P. Kantner

BlackFeather:

Most of you, especially shop owners, would likely see me as a threat. I dress somewhere between a hoodlum, and a school shooting stereotype. Long hair, Hispanic, perpetual scowl, usually have a bandanna, and often open carry a fixed blade knife when legal. I get looks, I've been accused of stealing, and I've been misunderstood by about everyone who owns a gun shop or pawn shop.

BlackFeather, you and icedog88 mentioned going around with a scowl. That is a very powerful piece of negative body language. Even OJ, long before he was accused of brutal, bloody murder, was known for his smile and his friendly demeanor.

The single most effective way to avoid being "misunderstood", regardless of how you otherwise present yourself, is to lose that scowl. Try your best to think pleasant thoughts and put on a genuine smile when you enter a shop or interact with a stranger.

This is not a touchie-feelie Kumbaya message; it's a tactical insight into sizing up people and their intentions. A BG, unless he is a practiced pro or a psychopath, will have a hard time faking a smile, and the fakers will usually give themselves away. That's what often gives jihadists away, even though they are psychopaths.

[Skadoosh]

That's what often gives jihadists away, even though they are psychopaths.

That right there made me think of Jeff Dunham's Achmed the Dead Terrorist....

[BlackFeather]

It's honestly not like I do it on purpose, I don't think anyone does. It's usually just how I look. I am honestly too busy thinking about other, more important things than smiling. Don't get me wrong, I'll hold open a door for a lady, or anyone, and give them a smile. Usually, don't get a thank you, but .

It's more dependent on how things are going that day, why I'm there, and who I'm around.

[icedog88]

Believe me, the Corps doesn't want touchy feelie Kumbaya so that ain't even close. Is it more negative to walk around thinking that certain people present more of a threat than others because of their skin tone or walking around with my scowl that tells people don't even try it. Everything about my walk says JARHEAD! That's my training. Not even second nature. First nature. I don't really care if people are turned off by me not smiling all the time like some "touched" demented person. It's a tool in MY toolbox. It works exactly as designed. When I smile, small children cry so I've been told not to

[Skadoosh]

blackfeather, I know what you're talking about: my wife says I do the same thing. The strange part is that I am not usually aware of it. I like to think of myself as a good-natured fellow and used to think that I presented a sunny outward appearance, but apparently not. I am always a little taken aback whenever she points it out to me that I am scowling.


But just the other day a little blue-haired lady tapped on my shoulder at the gas station and asked if i could help her inflate a tire that was low on her car. I guess my scowl wasn't to off-putting that day!

[markj]

Why all of a sudden do we have folks trying to rob people that have guns on them in iopen view? That kinda alarms me to think they would do that. Kinda makes me feel like they are on a suicide mission, accomplish the misson or die in the attempt.

Is true bad people come from all wealks of life but around here it is the gangsta wannabes doing the violence, blacks and mexicans. Which is too bad these folks could get an education and get a good job, but no they would rather suck the govt teat and go around acting all bad and shooting each other.

Had a home invasion in a very nice neighborhood while the family was in the home. Best be prepared than not.

[BlackFeather]

Originally Posted by markj

Is true bad people come from all wealks of life but around here it is the gangsta wannabes doing the violence, blacks and mexicans. Which is too bad these folks could get an education and get a good job, but no they would rather suck the govt teat and go around acting all bad and shooting each other.

I hate to say it, but that's not even racist, it's true. I can't say how many of my friends who are Hispanic, Black, Filipino, or even White who think the "Gangster" "culture" is cool. Usually the first two. I separated them in quotes, I know. I find the mentality to be disgusting, and I treat my friends as such when they act that way. No matter how you look at it, it's wrong and not worth pursuing. That's the problem though, it's "cool" because it's wrong, it has musical influence, and has flashy cars, clothes, money, and women. That attracts the young crowd, and I say that being one of the young crowd. My cousins were/are in gangs, so were my uncles, my step-grandfather was part of a branch of the Mexican mob and used to ship drugs. To be honest, I think what helped me stay out of it was my White father. Instead of hip-hop and drugs, I was influenced by metal, science, and martial arts. Which shows a lot as far as how a person is raised. Sorry for the life story.

[icedog88]

Markj. Really dude? Thanks for showing up.

[icedog88]

We had a home invasion here not too long ago as well. White family, White criminals. What was your point? To train against a black invasion? What if I train for a black invasion and they turn out to be white??? I want my money back!! Since the thread is in training and tactics, I fail to see what this has to do with gov handouts. Ignorance running rampant here.

[Datguy781]

Scenario: Im in a less than happy mood that day (insert reason here) I am also a minority who legally carries and also military. I go into a small store and fall to realize my gun is slightly printing. I reach the counter and use my right hand to reach for my wallet to pay. At that moment the cashier and an unknown person point guns at me and force me to give up MY gun and leave the store.

I am going to call the police and insure that you and cashier are punished to the maximum extent of the law for not attempted armed robbery but for ARMED robbery, to the point were future gun ownership is out of the question.

This scenario situation could have easily turned fact. I hate to be that guy but your prejudice of someone's intentions based on their demeanor will not hold up in court. It would be different if he was in the process of the crime; ever wonder why on cop stings they wait for the perp to agree to buy sex/drugs/stolen merchandise. The story of " he was a minority who had a concealed weapon and I never seen him before" Its not good enough. All in all no one got hurt which is good. Hopefully this individual is indeed a criminal and not some scared citizen that ran for the life after being robbed in their eyes.

[threegun]

Having tattoos, earrings, and a perpetual scowl(thanks USMC!) doesn't say what I am.

Which is why you would never know I was worried about you. Your appearance or our appearance is the first thing we see. Its the starting point in SD. Sure you could be a very nice person however your appearance is going to speak for you in the beginning. A group of Black youths dressed in red bandannas in an area plagued by the Bloods gang will get much more attention than a group of black youths dress like boy scouts. That may suck for those boys in red if they were going to church for Sunday service but it is done everyday by everybody. Even those who say they don't, do.

[MLeake]

Datguy781, if your scenario had happened, the first indication would be the police report made by the individual who had his guns taken from him.

Since that does not appear to have happened...

[Edward429451]

So if I read someones body language and it says that he's a punk, I'm supposed to disregard my brain if the guy is black so that the racephobic people can feel comfortable? You guys crack me up.

So who's being racist and putting mostly black guys on the dumb criminals TV?
Perhaps some of the so called racism allegedly typed in is in fact experience and not racism?

[icedog88]

So I'm driving through North Dakota to visit my Grammy and stop at a convenience store at 3:30 in the morning, grab my Slushee, and reach into my coat to get my wallet and next thing I'm layin there shot cuz some dude just finished watchin Boyz in tha Hood? I ain't buyin it.
Threegun, what if they were white with white bandanas? Less threatened? How I look now (minus the earrings) was the same way I looked on the front lines in defense of this country. Good enuff there but not here? Judge by action, not just outward appearances.
Datguy781, if that happened why not come back to the store with the cops.

[icedog88]

Edward, maybe you should read the entire posts where CLEARLY I state actions are how you judge a man. Not his skin tone.

[MLeake]

Assuming the original post is accurate, not impugning the OP but bearing in mind that he's relaying second-hand info, and his friend was under a wee bit of stress (which often impacts memory in odd ways)... but assuming it is accurate...

... then the BG didn't grab his wallet, but instead put his fingers on one of his guns.

He was also apparently carrying guns in his waistband. No mention was made of holsters. I've been told by a few cops that guns stuck in waistbands is one of the cues they look for; BGs often don't want holsters because it makes it harder to throw away the weapon prior to an arrest. "Hey, why do you have a 1911 holster on your belt? Could it be for that 1911 that was under the hedge?"

IE, normally holsters mean law-abiding CCW type, and lack of holsters often means BG.

I know some forum members like "Mexican carry," but safety issues aside, do realize it looks bad to some LEO types.

[threegun]

Mleake, I wouldn't have approached him but just drawn down on him. I would have attempted (verbally) to get him on the ground against Maas's teachings though.

[threegun]

As if to say Blacks only commit these crimes or whites only commit this type and this is how you train against this mentality

Icedog, You made assumptions here as I did when you question why.

okay...since no one here seems up for a citizen's arrest, back to my "smile for the camera" comment. I would have even used my smartphone and taken a short video of his face from various angles...

My coworker doesn't know his large hind end from a hole in the ground much less what a citizens arrest is. LOL. He is sorely lacking in everything SD related. He knows better now and has promised to learn. He was basically scared straight.

BlackFeather, you and icedog88 mentioned going around with a scowl. That is a very powerful piece of negative body language. Even OJ, long before he was accused of brutal, bloody murder, was known for his smile and his friendly demeanor.

The single most effective way to avoid being "misunderstood", regardless of how you otherwise present yourself, is to lose that scowl. Try your best to think pleasant thoughts and put on a genuine smile when you enter a shop or interact with a stranger.

Even a closed mouth smile.

Why all of a sudden do we have folks trying to rob people that have guns on them in iopen view? That kinda alarms me to think they would do that. Kinda makes me feel like they are on a suicide mission, accomplish the misson or die in the attempt.

Got us scared also. I don't think it was a suicide mission because he gave up instantly. We are all scratching our collective heads on this one.

Threegun, what if they were white with white bandanas? Less threatened?

Nope white freaky or gangster thug looking guys get the same treatment.

How I look now (minus the earrings) was the same way I looked on the front lines in defense of this country. Good enuff there but not here? Judge by action, not just outward appearances.

Thank you for defending us all. But sadly I don't have anyway of knowing your service when you walk past me at 1am or as you enter our shop. I can only make my initial judgment based on what I see and other associated facts.

Edward, maybe you should read the entire posts where CLEARLY I state actions are how you judge a man. Not his skin tone.

Unfortunately in keeping myself safe I am willing to use every advantage possible including profiling. I will judge you by your actions but prepare in keeping myself safe upon anything that gives me alarm.

If a 130 pound rotweiler was walking toward me normally. But don't know the dog from Adam. I will prepare a defense as if he was vicious until I find out he is a big baby. Properly done he would be the wiser and everybody feels good.

IE, normally holsters mean law-abiding CCW type, and lack of holsters often means BG.

Another form of profiling and very good i might add. I Mexican carry sometimes thanks for the heads up LOL.

[threegun]

Scenario: Im in a less than happy mood that day (insert reason here) I am also a minority who legally carries and also military. I go into a small store and fall to realize my gun is slightly printing. I reach the counter and use my right hand to reach for my wallet to pay. At that moment the cashier and an unknown person point guns at me and force me to give up MY gun and leave the store.

I am going to call the police and insure that you and cashier are punished to the maximum extent of the law for not attempted armed robbery but for ARMED robbery, to the point were future gun ownership is out of the question.

Datguy, You don't give someone the heebie geebies either. Black yes, large yes, spooky looking no, robber looking no, clean cut yes, and no snarl. Heck I would invite you over for dinner. Visit the shop and I will show you what Vic was talking about. Some guys come in that would make Rambo's knees knock.

I was playing football and my beretta jetfire fell into the road from my jacket pocket. An off duty officer with his family happened to see this. I was drawn on and forced to comply with the old hands up deal. Long story short I was finally able to show my permit and all was better after a scolding for not having it more secure. Point is IF (notice the BIG if) you are drawn on for getting to close to your partially exposed firearms simply comply and wait for police to figure it out. It is your fault for printing and then making it look as if you were trying to get a grip on the firearm anyway.

[BlackFeather]

So, here's a question.

I only carry a knife, don't currently own a handgun. If someone were to, not be carrying a firearm but had a knife, what could they have done in this situation?

I don't really know what I would do, but I'm curious what others would say. It's not to be another "I would have done this", it's "if all you had was this, what would your options have been?"

[Skadoosh]

Why all of a sudden do we have folks trying to rob people that have guns on them in iopen view?

My bet is the kid didn't even notice that the shop owner was open carrying...

[threegun]

Sorry for posting so many in a row but I have time now. This is a story of my radar working.

A man walks into our shop. He is dressed in university of north carolina tar heels basketball clothes the cap, shirt, and shorts. He says nothing upon entry and his hat is very low as if to shield his eyes. He makes one lap around the shops show floor slowly but never looks into a single showcase or at anything behind the counters. He just stayed head forward. Halfway through the lap I mumbled to my female coworker in spanish to be prepared that this guy was looking fishy to me. I positioned myself so that I could see his waist to check for lumps and so he could see my openly carried pistol. As he finished his lap and began to head for the exit I politely asked him if he had seen anything he couldn't live without. He said "naw man" and walked out. He kept his hat so low that I could only see his mouth and maybe a bit of nose. Well my coworker and I agreed that something was wrong with what just happened but didn't think more of it. Next day Tampa Police Detectives come in and warn us that the Pawnshop 3 blocks away was robbed, including customers one of which held a baby, being held at gunpoint. He told us that we could view the video on baynews 9 web page. So a few minutes later we view the footage. There were two robbers one very thin the other heavy set (like the guy who cased our shop a day earlier). I called my coworker over for a look. Body shape was identical. She agreed so we called the number to the detective listed on baynews9's video. I explained what had happened to us and simply asked the detective if one of the suspects had a tattoo on his right arm. His reply "what did it look like". My coworker had to take the phone as I couldn't remember what it looked like. She described what she saw. Within hours the detective was in the shop and copying the video onto a flash drive.

This guy was well dressed (outfit was new) but his weird actions made him suspicious to me. Sometimes its appearance. Sometimes its actions. Sometimes both. Sometimes you get neither and thats the bad one.

Don't know if the video helped I do believe that it was the robber.