Is the Winchester Winclean 45ACP BEB ideal for defense? - Page 2

Jeff Gonzales · November 24, 2004, 09:20 PM

The last thing I will leave you guys with is a 9mm might expand, but a 45 doesn't shrink.

Get the hits, the rest is academics.

Later,

Cheshire · June 3, 2010, 06:14 PM

I've shot thousands of Winclean 45 with no issues. Guess my gun handles them just fine. Here is a question - I've heard police officers load HP, JHP, HP, etc. specifically because they can't count on a JHP penetrating a door, down coat, etc. Home defense I can see why you would not want to. For conceal carry in the city, I think I would.

nefprotector · June 3, 2010, 08:14 PM

good enough if you cant find anything else.

cje1980 · June 3, 2010, 11:02 PM

Cheshire, your post makes absolutely no sense. Sorry dude. A HP is the same thing as a JHP. Did you mean JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ? You better think again if you don't believe any round from a service pistol will penetrate a door or down coat. Actually the cavity in inferior JHPs tend to fill up and they tend to behave just like FMJ. High quality JHPs penetrate most barriers well and perform well on the intended target.

JHP loads in the 45 ACP perform just fine. Actually the concern is that the slow velocity will prevent them expanding. The result would be overpenetration not shallow penetration. Some people just don't understand ballistics. Heavy and slow projectiles tend to penetrate more than lighter and faster projectiles. Just about every 45 ACP defense load I've seen tested has performed really well except the really lightweight 165 and 185 loads.

For example, I bet most people don't know that at close range, rifles like 308 Win, 223 Rem, and 30-30 penetrate about the same as common SD pistol rounds in soft targets. After penetrating barriers pistol rounds will actually penetrate more than rifle rounds in soft targets. But everybody and their Mom thinks that rifles shouldn't be used for home defense because they overpenetrate.

(BH) · June 3, 2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Here is a question

And here's a question for you....

Why are you debating in a six year old thread?

Lokpyrite · June 4, 2010, 12:04 AM

I've never heard anyone worry about flesh penetration in a 45 jhp. Sure it's not the best for shooting through a car windshield but it'll sure as hell go through some drywall that the BG's hiding behind.

Glenn E. Meyer · June 4, 2010, 09:57 AM

Not doing a zombie thread or another mixed magazine thread - there's already one of those running.

Closed.

November 24, 2004, 09:20 PM	#26
Jeff Gonzales Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 126	Without getting into a debate The last thing I will leave you guys with is a 9mm might expand, but a 45 doesn't shrink. Get the hits, the rest is academics. Later, __________________ Jeff Gonzales Director of Training Trident Concepts, LLC.

June 3, 2010, 06:14 PM	#27
Cheshire Junior Member Join Date: June 3, 2010 Posts: 1	Your gun and your rounds I've shot thousands of Winclean 45 with no issues. Guess my gun handles them just fine. Here is a question - I've heard police officers load HP, JHP, HP, etc. specifically because they can't count on a JHP penetrating a door, down coat, etc. Home defense I can see why you would not want to. For conceal carry in the city, I think I would.

June 4, 2010, 12:04 AM	#31
Lokpyrite Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2009 Posts: 367	I've never heard anyone worry about flesh penetration in a 45 jhp. Sure it's not the best for shooting through a car windshield but it'll sure as hell go through some drywall that the BG's hiding behind. __________________ The more people I meet the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.

June 4, 2010, 09:57 AM	#32
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Not doing a zombie thread or another mixed magazine thread - there's already one of those running. Closed. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

June 3, 2010, 08:14 PM	#28
nefprotector Junior member Join Date: December 3, 2009 Location: SE Alabama Posts: 701	good enough if you cant find anything else.

June 3, 2010, 11:02 PM	#29
cje1980 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,412	Cheshire, your post makes absolutely no sense. Sorry dude. A HP is the same thing as a JHP. Did you mean JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ? You better think again if you don't believe any round from a service pistol will penetrate a door or down coat. Actually the cavity in inferior JHPs tend to fill up and they tend to behave just like FMJ. High quality JHPs penetrate most barriers well and perform well on the intended target. JHP loads in the 45 ACP perform just fine. Actually the concern is that the slow velocity will prevent them expanding. The result would be overpenetration not shallow penetration. Some people just don't understand ballistics. Heavy and slow projectiles tend to penetrate more than lighter and faster projectiles. Just about every 45 ACP defense load I've seen tested has performed really well except the really lightweight 165 and 185 loads. For example, I bet most people don't know that at close range, rifles like 308 Win, 223 Rem, and 30-30 penetrate about the same as common SD pistol rounds in soft targets. After penetrating barriers pistol rounds will actually penetrate more than rifle rounds in soft targets. But everybody and their Mom thinks that rifles shouldn't be used for home defense because they overpenetrate.