Striker-fired,,,…safest?

[wild cat mccane]

I was just thinking on this with the hammer fired P226 or P30.

The "shake" to move a sear and discharge is a problem with a broken/stuck firing pin block them too.

Unless it's a true restrike double action, any gun is going to have this concept of "one less" safety feature.

[JustJake]

Navy SEALs adopted the Gen4 Glock 19. Striker fired and uber-safe.

All you need to know right there.

[RC20]

There is a reason for the phrase, Glock Butt and Glock Leg.,

A DA Revolver in D was safe, very few had safeties.

The DA Semi Auto copied that. Best of both worlds, D for fast and S for precise shooting.

Glock and the striker types are a half assed in between D and S

[RC20]

Navy SEALs adopted the Gen4 Glock 19. Striker fired and uber-safe.

All you need to know right there.

99.999999999999999% of us are not Seals

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by RC20

99.999999999999999% of us are not Seals

99.999999999999999% of Glock users don't shoot themselves in the butt or leg either, yet that never stops people from pointing out that negligent discharges do happen with Glocks.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I was just thinking on this with the hammer fired P226 or P30.

The "shake" to move a sear and discharge is a problem with a broken/stuck firing pin block them too.

Unless it's a true restrike double action, any gun is going to have this concept of "one less" safety feature.

That's only true if those pistols have enough energy in the hammer spring, as in they have been cocked to some degree. On a DA/SA pistol that's not true unless the hammer is cocked. On the DAK and LEM variants while the hammer has some pretension, the hammer still is resting mostly forward. I don't think they have enough of a potential arc to actually detonate a primer (it's an interesting question because I've never seen that addressed anywhere). Similar to say a Glock, the degree of pre-tensioning can matter in the case where other safeties fail.

I think there's a difference between theoretical safety and practical safety. If you take a fully-cocked, striker-fired pistol that has a properly functioning drop safety as well as a properly functioning firing pin/striker block, the chances of both of those failing leading to a discharge are quite small. While MarkCO has seen it happen, I don't believe he's arguing it’s common. Whether that additional degree of mechanical safety matters to you is a question. On a pistol that might be adopted at a department level where budgets are tight and the pistols will likely see years of service and varying degrees of inspection by department level armorers this may become more important to you. While people often also use the "carried a lot, shot a little" adage when it comes to police firearms, they are generally at least used in qualification, which if we're honest is something not always true of private citizens (keeping in mind that those of us on this forum that shoot to the extent we do are the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to overall gun ownership). I've personally bought a few police trade-in firearms; most of which were in very good condition, but one could have gotten someone killed had it actually been needed because of a lack of repair (and that was a pump action shotgun, something people often consider infallible, that had come out of a cruiser). Again, in those situations a pistol like a Glock has some additional appeal with its added safety.

I end this by saying I primarily carry/use a Glock. I also have a P320, VP9, PDP, P10C, etc. Even being the person that just wrote the above, I do like that a Glock striker isn't fully tensioned and I honestly don't find the resulting trigger pull problematic, even compared to the excellent triggers on the other pistols I own.

[FITASC]

Navy SEALs adopted the Gen4 Glock 19. Striker fired and uber-safe.

All you need to know right there.

Lowest bidder, so what?

[wild cat mccane]

I think you're exactly right TunnelRat.

I think there is technically correct there are three safety features of the Glock trigger system and two on others (both present on Glock too) might be more theoretically important than practically likely to be a problem.

That said, I am looking for a Austrian (PA sku) Gen5 G19 with night sights right at this moment. My first glock. Exciting.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Lowest bidder, so what?

While I agree that adoption by one military unit or another is not the definitive word when it comes to a particular firearm, my own limited experience in working with people in similar units is that at that level it isn’t solely about lowest bidder. Those units have notably more discretion in procurement. Case in point, the Navy SEALs also use the HK45 Compact. If the goal was the cheapest pistol in 45 Auto, there are a number of options cheaper than the HK45 Compact.

The Glock 19 is a reliable, lightweight, compact pistol. While there are a number of reliable pistols these days, even today in terms of overall size and weight Glock still edges out a number of competitors. Add in the ease of sourcing Glock magazines, parts, sights, and other accessories and it makes sense why it might have appeal to people deploying in various locations around the world. Glock pistols are also common enough in security forces that the presence of a Glock itself doesn’t immediately signal the presence of the US military.


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[JustJake]

Navy SEALs adopted the Gen4 Glock 19. Striker fired and uber-safe.
All you need to know right there.

Lowest bidder, so what?

Wrongo, bobo.

Navy SEALS can choose whatever sidearm suits them, "lowest" bid or not.

* * * my own limited experience in working with people in similar units is that at that level it isn’t solely about lowest bidder. Those units have notably more discretion in procurement. Case in point, the Navy SEALs also use the HK45 Compact. If the goal was the cheapest pistol in 45 Auto, there are a number of options cheaper than the HK45 Compact.

Correct.

[wild cat mccane]

On a positive note, not talking about the P226 from the 1980s and elite operators, I found the Australian night sight sku and just bought the only G19 Gen5 night sight model on the internet. Didn't show up using gun.deals, but a simple google search.

We'll see. I haven't heard of this place before and still "in stock" after I made the purchase.

https://gqarmory.com/product/glock-1...-night-sights/

For the additional safety and all

[MarkCO]

TunnelRat, good post. Agree with your points.

[wild cat mccane]

Price is why the group went to the Glock over the long used P226 though.

The HK they use is a suppressed compact Mk 24 Mod 0. In 2011, think of the compact 45 options...

Everything I've read says the Glock was found equal to the P226 for cheaper. Bet the size and weight is the icing.

I think we're glossing over "equal" meaning both are good.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Price is why the group went to the Glock over the long used P226 though.

The HK they use is a suppressed compact Mk 24 Mod 0. In 2011, think of the compact 45 options...

Everything I've read says the Glock was found equal to the P226 for cheaper. Bet the size and weight is the icing.

I think we're glossing over "equal" meaning both are good.

My point wasn’t that price isn’t a factor, but that for the unit in question it is not the only factor. It’s important to keep in mind the comment to which I was responding. As always, context matters. I also never stated the P226 isn’t or wasn’t good, in fact I made no comments about the P226 at all. I have no issue with the P226, nor with the term “equal”. In terms of overall size and weight, however, they are not equal. That said in ways I think the P226 is a nicer shooting pistol. Something being as good as something else overall doesn’t mean each pistol doesn’t have its own areas where it might excel. Every firearm has its pluses and minuses.


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[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Price is why the group went to the Glock over the long used P226 though.

Maybe that is what was said. I've been at a few matches with guys from the teams and they have said, emphatically, it was weight that makes them prefer the Glock. Maritime cups on the cheap did not hurt. They train with them, but hardly ever use them in the field as they are purely a backup firearm.

[Fishbed77]

From a technical standpoint, one would think the Walther P99AS would be the safest of all striker-fired service-sized pistols, as it can be fully de-cocked, but still ready for immediate use.

Unfortunately, Walther has discontinued it for commercial sales in the U.S.

[wild cat mccane]

Hey now, you stop that

The Walther forum has it still has not officially dead. However, I hit up that thread every month to say no shipment yet.

Don't let Wiki be your guide. There is still hope.

Gosh dang the P99 lost my favor for a bit, but soon realized it's probably the best gun 20 even years later.

[FITASC]

Wrongo, bobo.

Navy SEALS can choose whatever sidearm suits them, "lowest" bid or not.

Oh so you are telling me that EVERY Navy SEAL went all in on the G-19? No one wanted a 1911, or a SIG, or a Walther? uh-huh

[JustJake]

Wrongo, bobo.
Navy SEALS can choose whatever sidearm suits them, "lowest" bid or not.

Oh so you are telling me that EVERY Navy SEAL went all in on the G-19? No one wanted a 1911, or a SIG, or a Walther? uh-huh

Ah, dude, do you even remember whatcha first posted? You claimed the SEALs choice of the Glock 19 was a "lowest bidder" outcome.

Well, your little butt-ski got spanked hard 'cause you were demonstrably WRONGO.

Cost alone was never an issue. Elite Mil-units can choose just about any weapon they believe suits their members' specific needs and mission requirements.

The Sig 226, while an excellent handgun, suffers from the same issues as the Beretta 92: both are unnecessarily large and heavy in relation to their 9 weenie-meter chambering.

If you have to arm up with a 9mm pistol for elite Mil-team operations, the Gen4 G19 is unarguably the best choice when factoring for size, weight, and mag capacity.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to get that; Larry Holmes can get that.

Don't be Larry Holmes.

Just sayin'.

[Aguila Blanca]

Okay, now that the discussion has successfully devolved into name calling, it's time to call it a night.

Closed.