new pistol for idpa? looking for opinions...

litenite99 · February 9, 2016, 10:55 AM

I have been shooting my local IDPA for about a year now. I have been shooting ssp using a springfield xd service model 4" bbl. I feel like im getting good enough and Im liking the shooting games enough to invest in a new handgun that may be more suited to shooting IDPA and possible USPSA. I was hoping some of you with more experience than me would be able to give me some insight into what you shoot and why. I have shot glocks, springfields, and smiths. If you guys had to buy a new gun to shoot both IDPA and USPSA what would you get and why?

RickB · February 9, 2016, 11:53 AM

I'd recommend a gun that is versatile, that you can use in both USPSA and IDPA.
A Glock 34 would be legal, if not absolutely perfect, for IDPA SSP and ESP, and for USPSA Production, Limited, and Limited 10.
You could go with a Glock 35 with 9mm conversion barrel, which would make you more competitive in the USPSA divisions that reward major power factor, while still having the option of 9 for Production and ESP.
There are lots of available parts and accessories.
I started shooting USPSA in 1997, and IDPA in 2000, using an old G.I. Colt .45, progressed through a number of different guns, but still shoot mostly with a Colt .45.
If I were going to buy a new gun today, I'd probably go with something plastic and striker-fired, as I've never owned a gun like that before, and for the reasons I recommended the Glocks above.

Jim Watson · February 9, 2016, 01:07 PM

You could just bump up to an XD 5.25 and keep the same ergodynamics with longer barrel and sight radius.

Other than that, the sky is the limit.
Glock 34-35 (Do you reload?) .40 Minor for IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, .40 Major for USPSA Limited saves the cost of a conversion barrel... which you cannot use in IDPA SSP or USPSA Production anyhow. Or just go 9mm. There is a whole cottage industry supporting Glocks.

Plastic M&P 9 Pro would be my choice. I have a service model with a Don Burwell tuneup that is great, I would only ask for the longer Pro barrel and match action which is wonderful.

Sig P320 is getting some attention with refinements by Bruce Gray and Robert Burke. They showed a Target model at SHOT that looked very interesting.

Walther PPQ has the best out of the box striker fired trigger I have seen. There is now a Lang model with 5" barrel that would make a good match gun.

I have no experience with HK VP9, but have read that it is much of a muchness with the other Plastic Pistoles and no doubt serviceable if you like the brand.

DA/SA guns are less popular than the various consistent trigger striker guns in the USA, but due to IPSC rules do very well overseas.

Or go Cocked and Locked and shoot IDPA CDP or ESP and USPSA Limited or Single Stack. 1911 and a number of other guns with proper thumb safeties are available.

9x45 · February 9, 2016, 01:23 PM

The most popular platform in USPSA Production are Glocks and CZs. However shooting a G34 in Limited or Limited 10 would score you as minor, 2 C's earns 6 points versus major, earns 8 points, 2 Ds earns 2 points versus 4 points major. Shooting 2 Ds in minor is like shooting a Mike, except for the 10 points down at the end. So if you reload go with a 40S&W.

If you guys had to buy a new gun to shoot both IDPA and USPSA what would you get and why?

I would still just use a G17 because I have been shooting and carrying Glocks since 92. However, my one buddy has been running a CZ and it's get a better trigger and grip, event better than a 1911. Weird rule though for Production the gun has to start hammer down, so it's lowered manually. I have shot M&Ps, there ok, but don't expect to get 100K out of them. Julie went thru like 5 guns last year.

zincwarrior · February 9, 2016, 01:56 PM

*To the OP: Do you like the Springfield? If so get an XDM 5.25, get a trigger job and practice! If not M&P pros, Glocks 34s, and CZs are the heavies in the market.
EDIT: ninja'ed by Watson above (I too have an M&P with a Burwell trigger job. Excellent)

*to 9X45: If I had to do it over again (M&P Pro), no changes except I'd get a Bar-Sto barrel (or Apex now) installed. Now that i think about it, the wife just found me my birthday present...

litenite99 · February 9, 2016, 07:42 PM

ALL i wanted to hear everyones opinions before i posted what i have been considering. You never know when someone will pass along some good advice. I currently have been stuck between the glock 34, the springfield xdm 5.25, and the smith m and p pro. To be perfectly honest im not a "fanboy" of any particular manufacturer, i realize they all have there weaknesses. I have not considered getting a cz until today several post have suggested it and i walked into a gun shop on my lunch break and in passing conversation told the salesman what i was looking for and considering and the first thing out of his mouth was "get a cz 75". so mabe im have one more to add to the potential list lol. I do reload and i have for about a year also i started all this about this time last year best two things i think i have ever got involved in.

Jim Watson · February 9, 2016, 09:27 PM

The CZs are DA/SA.
This is an advantage for IPSC with its rules on Production trigger pulls.
Not so much for USPSA Production or IDPA SSP, but some people are putting up with the DA first shot to get to the crisp SA followups instead of "constant mush" of a Glock.

Or shoot it SA in IDPA ESP or USPSA Limited. A 9mm will be at Minor scoring disadvantage in USPSA but they do make .40s.

Don P · February 10, 2016, 10:31 AM

What's wrong with shooting what you currently have? What makes you think its not suited to IDPA or USPSA?? You can shoot production in USPSA or Limited division shooting minor. All production shooters are classed as minor with regards to caliber. 17 rounds to start a stage in USPSA Limited or 11 rounds in production. I ask again why feeling of the gun not being suited??

zincwarrior · February 10, 2016, 10:48 AM

This is a fair question. It depends on how much you want to compete. A new pistol will improve performance, but only by a certain measure.

RickB · February 10, 2016, 12:00 PM

Equipment can provide an instant boost, if the change really is an improvement.
I'd been shooting a modified G.I. Colt for a few years, with good sights and trigger, but not much in the way of "features" that most people think are absolutely essential on a competition gun.
I switched to a longslide pistol with beavertail, fiber-optic front sight, magwell funnel, front strap checkering, all the goodies, and my classification jumped 10% almost immediately.

9x45 · February 10, 2016, 12:02 PM

Rick, what USPSA division?

RickB · February 10, 2016, 01:01 PM

I started shooting in the dark ages of only Limited and Open, so I was shooting my single stack .45 in Limited.
When Limited 10 came along, I got all racy and replaced my 8rd mags with 10s, and the rest is history.

litenite99 · February 10, 2016, 06:22 PM

Don P I do like my xd but shooting SSP I feel like i am at a disadvantage due to the shorter barrel and shorter sight radius. my groups open up at the 20 yard mark where as i dont have that problem with my 1911. I would shoot my 1911 in competition but that was before i learned the definition of "you get what you pay for" so i bought cheap and its to unreliable for competition in my opinion. I have considered getting a good 1911 for the competition im my opinion you cant beat the trigger pull and reset of a quality 1911 but i keep leaning back towards the plastic guns lol.

9x45 · February 10, 2016, 11:01 PM

Most shots in USPSA and IDPA are 3-15 yards, you can run it with a 4" gun, but it's a little easier with a 4.5" or 5" gun.

litenite99 · February 11, 2016, 08:41 PM

9x45 those were my thoughts exactly

Don P · February 12, 2016, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Don P I do like my xd but shooting SSP I feel like i am at a disadvantage due to the shorter barrel and shorter sight radius. my groups open up at the 20 yard mark where as i dont have that problem with my 1911. I would shoot my 1911 in competition but that was before i learned the definition of "you get what you pay for" so i bought cheap and its to unreliable for competition in my opinion. I have considered getting a good 1911 for the competition im my opinion you cant beat the trigger pull and reset of a quality 1911 but i keep leaning back towards the plastic guns lol.

OK now we have some more info. Do you really think the 1" extra in length is the reason you are shooting better with the 1911, OR is it the trigger?? As far as groups opening up at 20 yards I would say trigger control would be the reason and not the gun. Proving my point is you say you can do it with the 1911 but NOT the XD To me that states YOU have the capability and with practice should be able to produce the same results with both guns

Shotgun Slim · February 12, 2016, 10:07 AM

Litenite99 I'm with you on the 34/525/m&p choices if you want the easiest guns to score with in IDPA. However you could always use the gun you have now just to see how good you can get with it,knowing that you are at a disadvantage within the class. My goal for several years now has been to score as high as possible at a match so I use an XDm 525 modified as much as possible within the rules. Been there done that. Now IDPA has new rules and new divisions. I don't carry my 525,but I do carry my 3.8,which slots nicely into the new CCP class so now my goal is to see how good I can get with something I may actually use out in the world. Also I have a BUG so I will play with that from time to time because regular matches have a BUG class now. So your new gun doesn't have to be at the limits of the game. Get a big one if you want,reload for it and have a ball shooting great scores overall or decide to be the best you can be with something else.

litenite99 · February 12, 2016, 09:59 PM

Don P you may very well have a point I havent considered. The thing is I dont practice with the 1911 but my opinion is no matter how cheap the 1911 is the trigger of a single action gun is always better than the "mush" of the striker fire guns. shotgun slim I have tried the "be the best that I can be with my equipment" for the last year lol. Honesty I practice regularly, almost every week. What bugs me is that I usually find myself finishing in the top 5 but only once in first. Now to say a little about our local club with only have 60 memebers and for any given local match with probably only have half show up. If you divide that up between the common divisions that means basically im in the top 5 out of roughly 10 guys......I want to be better than that and my thinking is if my equipment is no longer my "limiting" factor than hopefully it may help me figure out what i need to work on most.

9x45 · February 13, 2016, 09:28 AM

Take shooting lessons from a USPSA GM or IDPA Master, that will take you much further than a new gun.

Jim Watson · February 13, 2016, 10:26 AM

Quote:

I would shoot my 1911 in competition but that was before i learned the definition of "you get what you pay for" so i bought cheap and its to unreliable for competition in my opinion.

You could probably get your cheap 1911 fixed for a lot less than the price of a new gun. What does it do that makes you call it "unreliable?"
Good magazines, good extractor, and acceptance of the roundnose bullet like John Browning, Colt Pt. F.A. Mfg. Co., Inc., and the US Army intended will help a lot.

litenite99 · February 13, 2016, 03:18 PM

Jim watson my 1911 is a norinco, the trigger is good enough for anything ill ever need but it has alot of feeding issues i have never be able to narrow down. I have tried different mags with no luck. I actually just came back from the range shot 100 rounds through it with a failure to feed on just about every other mag. That is why i shoot my xd. I shot 300 rounds through it today with no issues.

Jim Watson · February 13, 2016, 04:13 PM

How strange, the ChiCom knockoff has almost a cult following.
I am sure it is fixable.

February 9, 2016, 10:55 AM	#1
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	new pistol for idpa? looking for opinions... I have been shooting my local IDPA for about a year now. I have been shooting ssp using a springfield xd service model 4" bbl. I feel like im getting good enough and Im liking the shooting games enough to invest in a new handgun that may be more suited to shooting IDPA and possible USPSA. I was hoping some of you with more experience than me would be able to give me some insight into what you shoot and why. I have shot glocks, springfields, and smiths. If you guys had to buy a new gun to shoot both IDPA and USPSA what would you get and why?

February 9, 2016, 11:53 AM	#2
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I'd recommend a gun that is versatile, that you can use in both USPSA and IDPA. A Glock 34 would be legal, if not absolutely perfect, for IDPA SSP and ESP, and for USPSA Production, Limited, and Limited 10. You could go with a Glock 35 with 9mm conversion barrel, which would make you more competitive in the USPSA divisions that reward major power factor, while still having the option of 9 for Production and ESP. There are lots of available parts and accessories. I started shooting USPSA in 1997, and IDPA in 2000, using an old G.I. Colt .45, progressed through a number of different guns, but still shoot mostly with a Colt .45. If I were going to buy a new gun today, I'd probably go with something plastic and striker-fired, as I've never owned a gun like that before, and for the reasons I recommended the Glocks above. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

February 9, 2016, 01:23 PM	#4
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	The most popular platform in USPSA Production are Glocks and CZs. However shooting a G34 in Limited or Limited 10 would score you as minor, 2 C's earns 6 points versus major, earns 8 points, 2 Ds earns 2 points versus 4 points major. Shooting 2 Ds in minor is like shooting a Mike, except for the 10 points down at the end. So if you reload go with a 40S&W. If you guys had to buy a new gun to shoot both IDPA and USPSA what would you get and why? I would still just use a G17 because I have been shooting and carrying Glocks since 92. However, my one buddy has been running a CZ and it's get a better trigger and grip, event better than a 1911. Weird rule though for Production the gun has to start hammer down, so it's lowered manually. I have shot M&Ps, there ok, but don't expect to get 100K out of them. Julie went thru like 5 guns last year. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

February 10, 2016, 10:31 AM	#8
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	What's wrong with shooting what you currently have? What makes you think its not suited to IDPA or USPSA?? You can shoot production in USPSA or Limited division shooting minor. All production shooters are classed as minor with regards to caliber. 17 rounds to start a stage in USPSA Limited or 11 rounds in production. I ask again why feeling of the gun not being suited?? __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

February 10, 2016, 12:00 PM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Equipment can provide an instant boost, if the change really is an improvement. I'd been shooting a modified G.I. Colt for a few years, with good sights and trigger, but not much in the way of "features" that most people think are absolutely essential on a competition gun. I switched to a longslide pistol with beavertail, fiber-optic front sight, magwell funnel, front strap checkering, all the goodies, and my classification jumped 10% almost immediately. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

February 9, 2016, 01:07 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	You could just bump up to an XD 5.25 and keep the same ergodynamics with longer barrel and sight radius. Other than that, the sky is the limit. Glock 34-35 (Do you reload?) .40 Minor for IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, .40 Major for USPSA Limited saves the cost of a conversion barrel... which you cannot use in IDPA SSP or USPSA Production anyhow. Or just go 9mm. There is a whole cottage industry supporting Glocks. Plastic M&P 9 Pro would be my choice. I have a service model with a Don Burwell tuneup that is great, I would only ask for the longer Pro barrel and match action which is wonderful. Sig P320 is getting some attention with refinements by Bruce Gray and Robert Burke. They showed a Target model at SHOT that looked very interesting. Walther PPQ has the best out of the box striker fired trigger I have seen. There is now a Lang model with 5" barrel that would make a good match gun. I have no experience with HK VP9, but have read that it is much of a muchness with the other Plastic Pistoles and no doubt serviceable if you like the brand. DA/SA guns are less popular than the various consistent trigger striker guns in the USA, but due to IPSC rules do very well overseas. Or go Cocked and Locked and shoot IDPA CDP or ESP and USPSA Limited or Single Stack. 1911 and a number of other guns with proper thumb safeties are available.

February 9, 2016, 01:56 PM	#5
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	To the OP: Do you like the Springfield? If so get an XDM 5.25, get a trigger job and practice! If not M&P pros, Glocks 34s, and CZs are the heavies in the market. EDIT: ninja'ed by Watson above (I too have an M&P with a Burwell trigger job. Excellent) to 9X45: If I had to do it over again (M&P Pro), no changes except I'd get a Bar-Sto barrel (or Apex now) installed. Now that i think about it, the wife just found me my birthday present...

February 9, 2016, 07:42 PM	#6
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	ALL i wanted to hear everyones opinions before i posted what i have been considering. You never know when someone will pass along some good advice. I currently have been stuck between the glock 34, the springfield xdm 5.25, and the smith m and p pro. To be perfectly honest im not a "fanboy" of any particular manufacturer, i realize they all have there weaknesses. I have not considered getting a cz until today several post have suggested it and i walked into a gun shop on my lunch break and in passing conversation told the salesman what i was looking for and considering and the first thing out of his mouth was "get a cz 75". so mabe im have one more to add to the potential list lol. I do reload and i have for about a year also i started all this about this time last year best two things i think i have ever got involved in.

February 9, 2016, 09:27 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	The CZs are DA/SA. This is an advantage for IPSC with its rules on Production trigger pulls. Not so much for USPSA Production or IDPA SSP, but some people are putting up with the DA first shot to get to the crisp SA followups instead of "constant mush" of a Glock. Or shoot it SA in IDPA ESP or USPSA Limited. A 9mm will be at Minor scoring disadvantage in USPSA but they do make .40s.

February 10, 2016, 10:48 AM	#9
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	This is a fair question. It depends on how much you want to compete. A new pistol will improve performance, but only by a certain measure.

February 10, 2016, 12:02 PM	#11
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Rick, what USPSA division? __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

February 10, 2016, 01:01 PM	#12
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I started shooting in the dark ages of only Limited and Open, so I was shooting my single stack .45 in Limited. When Limited 10 came along, I got all racy and replaced my 8rd mags with 10s, and the rest is history. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

February 10, 2016, 06:22 PM	#13
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	Don P I do like my xd but shooting SSP I feel like i am at a disadvantage due to the shorter barrel and shorter sight radius. my groups open up at the 20 yard mark where as i dont have that problem with my 1911. I would shoot my 1911 in competition but that was before i learned the definition of "you get what you pay for" so i bought cheap and its to unreliable for competition in my opinion. I have considered getting a good 1911 for the competition im my opinion you cant beat the trigger pull and reset of a quality 1911 but i keep leaning back towards the plastic guns lol.

February 10, 2016, 11:01 PM	#14
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Most shots in USPSA and IDPA are 3-15 yards, you can run it with a 4" gun, but it's a little easier with a 4.5" or 5" gun. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

February 11, 2016, 08:41 PM	#15
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	9x45 those were my thoughts exactly

February 12, 2016, 10:07 AM	#17
Shotgun Slim Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Location: Va Posts: 291	Litenite99 I'm with you on the 34/525/m&p choices if you want the easiest guns to score with in IDPA. However you could always use the gun you have now just to see how good you can get with it,knowing that you are at a disadvantage within the class. My goal for several years now has been to score as high as possible at a match so I use an XDm 525 modified as much as possible within the rules. Been there done that. Now IDPA has new rules and new divisions. I don't carry my 525,but I do carry my 3.8,which slots nicely into the new CCP class so now my goal is to see how good I can get with something I may actually use out in the world. Also I have a BUG so I will play with that from time to time because regular matches have a BUG class now. So your new gun doesn't have to be at the limits of the game. Get a big one if you want,reload for it and have a ball shooting great scores overall or decide to be the best you can be with something else.

February 12, 2016, 09:59 PM	#18
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	Don P you may very well have a point I havent considered. The thing is I dont practice with the 1911 but my opinion is no matter how cheap the 1911 is the trigger of a single action gun is always better than the "mush" of the striker fire guns. shotgun slim I have tried the "be the best that I can be with my equipment" for the last year lol. Honesty I practice regularly, almost every week. What bugs me is that I usually find myself finishing in the top 5 but only once in first. Now to say a little about our local club with only have 60 memebers and for any given local match with probably only have half show up. If you divide that up between the common divisions that means basically im in the top 5 out of roughly 10 guys......I want to be better than that and my thinking is if my equipment is no longer my "limiting" factor than hopefully it may help me figure out what i need to work on most.

February 13, 2016, 09:28 AM	#19
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Take shooting lessons from a USPSA GM or IDPA Master, that will take you much further than a new gun. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

February 13, 2016, 03:18 PM	#21
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	Jim watson my 1911 is a norinco, the trigger is good enough for anything ill ever need but it has alot of feeding issues i have never be able to narrow down. I have tried different mags with no luck. I actually just came back from the range shot 100 rounds through it with a failure to feed on just about every other mag. That is why i shoot my xd. I shot 300 rounds through it today with no issues.

February 13, 2016, 04:13 PM	#22
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	How strange, the ChiCom knockoff has almost a cult following. I am sure it is fixable.