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Old March 16, 2018, 03:03 PM   #1
stagpanther
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284 win is in

Barrel from McGowen finally arrived today--first glance looks extremely well made--I asked for a thread cap protector and the fit is so precise I actually called them up to make sure it was two separate pieces before I started wrenching away on it.



Barrel OD from extension forward to port seems a bit thicker than what I usually get with an AR 10 barrel, so that's going to add some weight--but I assume there will be cooling/accuracy benefits to go along with the weight.

Hope to start the build tonight and have it ready to shoot this weekend!
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Old March 16, 2018, 07:02 PM   #2
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Fresh out of the oven

Well, here she is--very easy build, practically put herself together.
Tomorrow will try to get all the compliance/trueing etc checks done, with luck I'll get a round or two off before day's end. Biggest problem is getting to the range--we still have 2 feet of snow on the ground in spots and it may not be possible to get in.



Brief list of parts:

Aero lower and enhanced upper with Aero's parts kits
Aero enhanced M-lok 15" handgaurd (I've decided I really like having the gas block right at the end of the rail)
Superlative Arms adjustable gas block
Odin SS xl rifle gas tube
Aero NIB 4130 hardened steel bolt and carrier group
Tubb's flat spring 308 buffer spring
Kyntech hydraulic buffer
Jard adjustable 2lb 2 stage trigger
Kahntrol 308 muzzle brake
Nightforce SHV 5 x 20 x 56 illuminated MOAR scope (yup, decided to go top-shelf for once)

Good news is a conventional 308 magazine will successfully cycle the 284 cases. Bad news is that I can only get 4 or 5 cartridges in before the magazine starts bulging prohibitively. This is no big deal to me since I never use more than 5 cartridges at once in any xx308 platform gun anyway.
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Old March 16, 2018, 10:43 PM   #3
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Looks nice. Looks like that mount was just high enough for the scope to clear the rail. What your thoughts on the NF glass?
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Old March 17, 2018, 01:12 AM   #4
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thanks--haven't actually had the NF scope out of the house yet, so I can't really make an informed opinion yet. This seems to be their "budget" line of scopes (though this one was north of $1,200)--I always thought they were made in the US but this one is made in Japan. Seems robustly made, though i find it a tad odd that the windage turret is covered while the elevation one is more tactical style--though you can remove the windage cover if you want. My personal "first blush" impression is that the MOAR reticle-- while allowing for precision hold-over adjustments, gives the nod slightly to the long range hunter as opposed to the bench rest competition shooter by keeping the glass view relatively unobstructed. What lines are there are a bit thicker compared to something like a viper so you maybe can see it more easily, especially in dim light conditions. It will be a while for me to come up to speed with it, so I'm sure I'll have more to say once I start actual shooting with it.

In the meantime stormy winter weather does not seem to want to let go of New England, it's still cold, windy and snowy here and that has slowed me down significantly in my range time.
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Old March 17, 2018, 07:05 AM   #5
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Very nice, if you don't mind sharing, how much did it set you back minus the scope and scope mounts?
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Old March 17, 2018, 07:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Very nice, if you don't mind sharing, how much did it set you back minus the scope and scope mounts?
Hmmm--Ill give as a good a guesstimate as I can

receivers, rail and PK's--about $550
trigger group,BCG, buffer parts/buttstock about $500
barrel, block, tube, brake about $500

Sounds expensive, I know, but I went for mostly quality parts--you could easily shave at least $500 off that by going with "conventional mil spec" parts (even though such a thing doesn't really exist in the xx308 platform world).
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Old March 17, 2018, 11:37 AM   #7
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Expensive is a relative term. If it shoots under 1/2 MOA you got a bargain.
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Old March 17, 2018, 03:43 PM   #8
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Despite cold temps, deep snow and howling winds--I couldn't resist and went out to test fire the gun this morning; and drum roll....she shoots great! It doesn't happen often--but I hit the honey hole on the first try and everything works sweet as can be--gas system works great, cycle, ejection and lock back all flawless, no damage to brass, no shavings or pressure signs--and above all--sweet low felt -recoil. In an odd way almost disappointed I won't have to spend a week or two trying to work out the kinks.

Set up at 103 yards and the very first shot impacted about 2.5 inches above POA--that will definitely save some time and ammo--love it when that happens. Since conditions were so bad I didn't come to shoot any test loads--just a few cartridges to get on paper and test the system, but the 162 eldx's grouped under MOA--as would have the 140 accubonds had I not pulled one flier. I was worried about how well the hand-loads would do since I used old re-sized 6.5 x 284 norma brass--turns out it worked great--though I'm sure there's room for improvement.

In all respects this build has so far exceeded my expectations significantly--I hope the joy ride continues.

When the weather gets better I will get out to do some serious testing of hand-loads. The nightforce scope is quite nice--is it $800 worth of nicer than other scopes--don't know yet, though to be honest nothing jumped out like "smack my head, I could have had a V-8" moment. --the other thing is that the removable windage turret cover begs to be lost--I'll probably replace it eventually with the exposed turret like the elevation one is. Pretty stiff price so far is what I think, though the glass is clear to the edge of the field of view.
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Old March 18, 2018, 08:00 AM   #9
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I have to admit one of the most satisfying parts about this project was reading all the "it can't be done" comments when I was searching for information on it. Next I'm going to set up a strain gage to get some chamber pressure readings--but here is where I have a real problem since nobody makes factory ammo with known tested pressure baseline that I can use to calibrate to.
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Old March 18, 2018, 12:38 PM   #10
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What's the parent case for the .284 Winchester? What thinking 30.06 but seem to recall the .284 Win has a rebated rim? Plus, I'm still not clear how it differs from the 7mm 08. But thinking the .284 Win has been around a lot longer.
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Old March 18, 2018, 01:40 PM   #11
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Interesting build. With all the hype focused on all things 6.5mm lately it's refreshing to see someone doing an AR10 in 7mm. I'm assuming that was a custom ordered barrel and not something that's in regular production.(?)
284 was it's own thing when Winchester introduced it many moons ago. Has a larger diameter body but OAL is close to 308 so it would work in shorter actions. Difference is about 200fps.
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Old March 18, 2018, 02:19 PM   #12
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That's funny when you asked that ed308--so many people don't know that 284 win IS the original parent of other cartridges--the huge irony is that nowadays you often have to use 6.5 x 284 norma--which is the offspring of the 284 win--to neck up to 284. What goes around comes around.

I treid to go shoot again today--but once again was stymied by deep snow and strong gusty winds, instead of wasting a bunch of ladder test cartridges I decided to send a few more low-end charges for break-in purposes, I still have less than twenty shots total down the barrel. Here's some mild 140 accubond loads driven by RL15. While not an especially great group--I "can tell by feel" that this is going to be one fabulous shooter once everything settles in and I get some good loads going.



Given the conditions I'm still very pleased--the rifle itself continues to be exceptionally smooth in all functions--is it sick for me to say I love this thing?
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Old March 18, 2018, 02:24 PM   #13
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@brasscollector: Yes, the barrel is out of production so I had McGowan custom cut it for me. I also asked for a 15" (rifle + 2") port position and I believe that helps a great deal. The only drawback, is, of course, you have to be a relaoder to use something like this. Hand-loading is a bit tricky in that the case mouth will encroach into the bullet ogive--so you have to very carefully balance neck tension and mouth crimping. This kind of reloading is new to me--so I'm sure I'll get better at it as I go.
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Old March 18, 2018, 02:25 PM   #14
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This baby I have to say is one of my top favorite builds ever. 7mm/284 has some very surprisingly good numbers when looking at the velocity/energy profiles. This is my first foray into 7mm (other than shooting other people's) and I think it's going to be lots of fun.
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Old March 18, 2018, 10:59 PM   #15
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Looks like fun.

Quote:
I "can tell by feel" that this is going to be one fabulous shooter (...)
It's always a good day when you know, even if you can't prove it, that the rifle is good and you were doing at least well enough to call every shot.

Not all days are that good, any more. But I enjoy those that are.

A month or so back, my brother and his kids took me out to shoot some steel (out to 900 yards).
Once, I called it at 900, "low left," only to get an immediate rebuttal: "The bullet was still in the air when you called that! How did you know?"
Later, I called it again at 900, "hit," to get a similar response: "How did you know? It hadn't even hit yet."

Both times, I had the same answer, "I know where I was when the trigger broke. If you see the break, you can call the shot."
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Old March 19, 2018, 01:16 AM   #16
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I'm not really anywhere near as accomplished as that Franken--I've just done enough builds to start to get a feel when one is a really a good machine. Truth is--I really need to get some real professional training on long range shooting cause my skills just aren't there in that part of the game. I'm also about to turn 60 in a few months and my deteriorating eyesight is the biggest challenge to my shooting. I think what you might mean is you can sorta tell by the minute movement in the field of view of the scope at the precise moment the trigger breaks whether it was a good "true" on the target?
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Old March 19, 2018, 08:27 AM   #17
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I read lots of blah blah blah about how the cartridge would be difficult to cycle in the AR action. I think part of my success is attributable to the outstanding job McGowen did on the barrel and extension--and, much as I've been an Aero disser in the past--their enhanced upper is a definite step forward in precision alignment of the barrel to bolt and rail IMO--probably will use them from now on for all my AR 10 builds--may even take a look at their AR15 receivers at some point.

The 284 cartridge--in it's short action guise of 2.8 +/- COL is kinda sorta like the 5.56 IMO--while the far-forward shoulder makes it a PITA to hand-load for; it really makes the cartridge chamber more reliably IMO since the shoulder engages the feed lips and feed ramps almost immediately upon contact by the bolt--enhancing it's "swim upstream" into the chamber opening. That characteristic, IMO, is one of the biggest factors that affects an AR's accuracy.

Contrast that to, for example, a pistol cartridge blow back AR--getting the cartridge into the chamber is a lot like the bolt hitting a baseball and hoping it flies into the chamber lol.

I could also be dreaming, too.
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Old March 19, 2018, 01:23 PM   #18
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I think what you might mean is you can sorta tell by the minute movement in the field of view of the scope at the precise moment the trigger breaks whether it was a good "true" on the target?
Yes.
Knowing right where the rifle was pointing at the moment the trigger breaks allows you to call the shots -- so long as the rifle doesn't shoot barn-door-sized groups.

I'm no pro. I'm not even a mediocre amateur. It's just something I paid attention to when I noticed multiple career shootists saying it was a very important part of improving shooting habits.

KraigWY here on TFL has had some excellent explanations of the benefits in the past. But - at least in my opinion - the biggest one that comes from paying attention, as closely as possible to seeing where the crosshairs or sights are at at the moment the trigger breaks, is that you learn not to close your eyes (or blink) when you know the rifle well enough to know the break is coming.
It's a very easy habit to fall into, and I think the vast majority of shooters don't realize we're even doing it.

It does wonders for group size and consistency. But, more importantly to me, it does wonders for my brain being able to correlate sight picture at the moment the trigger broke with where the shot impacted.
Shooting under the right circumstances, at the right range, etc., it can be fun some times to try to time the break with a heart beat, to see if it introduces some randomness. (Yes, I do weird things, some times.)
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Old March 19, 2018, 03:15 PM   #19
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^^^^ What he said. ^^^^
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Old March 19, 2018, 04:32 PM   #20
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Since this is my thread--permission for topic to wander far and wide is granted to all commenters (with the exception of why you don't like 6.5 creedmoor or why 5.56 isn't appropriate for hunting, I will then close the thread immediately).

Anyway--I've never seen a serious comp shooter comment on it--and I was just wondering....

I'm also an archery buff, though I spend less time with that due to having dislocated my shoulder many years ago. But I have four wooden instinctive bows (in addition to a modern compound)--no sights and rudimentary rests. Instinctive is just that--you develop a "feel" for the performance of the bow, arrow and instinctively adjust the bow's angle on the fly. I swear there is a "Zen" connection you make--it's like you feel a connection from the arrow to the target before you release it. I get it every now and then when shooting firearms--but not nearly as often, unfortunately.
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Old March 19, 2018, 07:01 PM   #21
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I understand that. Sometimes, you just feel it. I'm sure the archery has definitely helped hone that for you and put you ahead of those of us that no longer use (or have never messed with) bows.

Here's a discussion about calling shots, that I dug up, with some input from Kraigwy and others: "Calling your shots"
As sort-of touched on in his post (#17), one of the biggest reasons he finds it important is for making wind calls and adjustments. But it's not the only one.
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Old March 19, 2018, 07:33 PM   #22
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cool--thanks for that.
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Old March 20, 2018, 04:08 AM   #23
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Had to make my own modified case for the comparator since there isn't one available--I was curious just how long the cartridge could be before engaging the lands. The answer appears to be--pretty long, the hornady 162 eldx's can go past 3.2 before engaging the lands. Might try some single shot hand-fed long cartridges at some point to see what difference that makes.
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Old March 20, 2018, 04:58 AM   #24
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Stagpanther,
If you dig that Zen like feeling (and who don't) give the clay target sports a shot. You nicely described the feeling of pointing a shotgun and being rewarded with a ball of smoke.
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Old March 20, 2018, 07:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
If you dig that Zen like feeling (and who don't) give the clay target sports a shot. You nicely described the feeling of pointing a shotgun and being rewarded with a ball of smoke.
Definitely on my list of things to try. My problem is--I have so many things to shoot, I never really become a master of any one weapon.
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