Is a snub .38 enough for Mountain Lion?

[Mosin44az]

Thinking of switching to my Ruger LCR while backpacking. So a couple of questions:

1. Is .38 special enough caliber to stop a mountain lion attack?

2. If so, what load is recommended?

Thanks for all relevant info.

[jstert]

i wish that i could offer some first-hand experience with 38sp ammo versus a mountain lion, but i can’t, which is likely a good thing.

i am wondering what sidearm you carry now, and what others you can choose from of what you already own.

fwiw, i like 38sp for day hikes, but my worry is feral dogs and feral humans. i recently put 500 rounds through a s&w 642 to bring me up to a comfortable level of competence. being a small airweight is its heartiest recommendation as a hiking companion but i sure wish that it had a hammer and 3” barrel for better accuracy.

[HighValleyRanch]

BB .38 special +P Outdoorsman is the best choice.
Out of my .38 LCR, it chronoed the same as low end .357 mag. and is hard cast flat nose for penetration.
It's what I carry up here in the woods.

[RKG]

The only correct answer, I believe, is: sometimes yes and sometimes no. Too many variables.

[Electrod47]

I couldn't have said it better.

[CDW4ME]

I replied in the other thread about 9mm and mountain lion.

There is nowhere I'd prefer to have just 5 rounds of 38 special rather than 11 rounds of 9mm (Sig 365, Glock 26, 48, Hellcat) to defend myself.

[Mosin44az]

Thanks for the replies!

CDW4me, understand your point about more ammo. One scenario I mention in the other thread is the circumstance that a mountain lion might jump you without warning. A revolver (readily available!) might be better in case you need to make a shot with your gun’s barrel pressed against your would-be predator. Some people I have spoken to think a large hunting knife would be useful as well. Again, you have to be able to get to it!

Jstert, I believe Ruger offers an LCRx with hammer and 3-inch barrel. Might think about that one myself. It IS easier to hit at distance, in part because you can cock the hammer. Interesting you think a 5-shot snubby is good for feral dogs and humans. I would want more capacity for those threats, but I appreciate your info. Don’t envy a 500 round course of fire with a 642!

Right now I mostly carry compact .40s and .45s, like the first gen M & P Compact and Springfield XD45 subcompact. While these are fine for dayhiking, even they weigh more than a pound extra compared to the LCR and this adds stress for backpacking.

[stinkeypete]

I replied in the other post.

If you're that worried, bring bear spray.

But the fact is, you're more likely to be killed by infection from a tick bite than a mountain lion. You don't seem to be real worried about ticks. Something to think about.

learning about your habitat and the animals in it, you can learn to avoid trouble or diffuse trouble most all of the time.

In the event a mountain lion really wants to get you, you might never see it until your head is in it's jaws or you'll be so freaked out your shots will be wild and probably miss. This is such a rare occurrence that statistically its insanely more likely you'll be killed driving to where you hike than mauled by a big cat.

Unless you're doing something silly like walking around with meat underpants. So don't do that.

I posit that fellas just like to walk in the woods with handguns. I do. So I take an accurate one. When I see the right log, I like to put the tin cans and shotgun hulls I have found on the log and step back 15 yards and shoot them before packing them out. Because fun.

I carry a handgun in the woods because it's fun, not because I am afraid. And my field clothes are sprayed with permethrin.

[OldManMontgomery]

On the whole, no. Sort of like a big club: used properly, briskly and early on; maybe. As a last ditch attempt, probably not.

[smee78]

I would stick with your 9mm idea, for a lighter carry with more rounds available.

The ONLY 38 special I would consider carrying for mountain lion duty would be my S&W 242, it holds 7 rounds, weighs 19oz, and has an aluminum and scandium alloy frame and barrel shroud, titanium alloy cylinder, and stainless steel barrel liner.

[ghbucky]

Originally Posted by stinkeypete

I replied in the other post.

If you're that worried, bring bear spray.

+1 on bear spray. If you are worried about predators, the spray is your go-to defense.

[JasoninSD]

A 38 SPC might be enough to stop a mountain lion if you can put a round or two where it needs to be in relatively short order. But as Stinkeypete points out, you will probably never see the cat that really wants to get you. They will usually attack from behind and bite down on the neck in an instant. Fortunately, the attacks are very rare.

[Mosin44az]

Thanks again for all the replies. I won’t sweat the firearm choice as long as I also carry Bear spray.

Smee, that Smith 242 sounds nice. Ruger LCR .357 is comfortable with .38+p at 2 ounces less.

[Mannlicher]

I have little doubt that (eventually) a .38 would subdue a cougar. Will it do so quickly enough to save your life? It's a gamble.

[44caliberkid]

“A mountain lion might jump you without warning.” Exactly. Mountain lions don’t like to attack anything that sees them first. All attacks I have read about were described as, “I was walking (riding) along when I was suddenly hit from behind ( or above) by a huge weight.” The lion stays on your back, trying to get a bite (hold) on your neck or lower skull. It is usually a companion or other person that drives off the attack, as the victim is too disoriented to do much to help themselves. I imagine any gun will work if you are able to get it out and use it. My daughter carries a 38 snub when hiking in Arizona but it is mainly to ward off two legged predators.

[Mosin44az]

I agree that the cougar is usually a close-range ambush predator, but not always. I knew someone who was out hiking with his old dog in the White Mountains of Arizona when he started sensing that they were being stalked. He would hear occasional sounds like rocks being slipped on.

After a few hours he saw the cougar coming at them across an open meadow. He said it wasn’t even running hard, more like it was loping towards them. He thinks it had calculated they were easy prey, both looking old and moving slowly. It didn’t reckon on his .454 Casull! He lined up and took it with one shot…..

There’s a clip over in my 9mm thread showing a cougar doing the same thing, moving in the open toward the video guy then suddenly leaping as if to attack, only to quit immediately on the gunshot.

[44 AMP]

Is a snub .38 enough for Mountain Lion?

Yes.

[Shadow9mm]

IMHO 9mm would be a better choice compared to a 38spl snubbie. Having owned a LCR I hated that little gun. It was painful to shoot with full power and +p loads, the trigger was, well a double action revolver trigger, so not great IMHO. Accuracy was poor. IMHO 9mm will have more energy and be more effective.

[44 AMP]

I don't think it really matters. Both rounds will shoot all the way through a CAT, even a big cat. Animals are rarely impressed by a relative handful of ft/lbs, what your gun has written on it, or how many rounds it holds.

What they do notice is being HIT, and where they get hit. Choice of caliber (and ammo load) doesn't matter as much as your ability to hit the right spot with the gun you are using.

I agree that the cougar is usually a close-range ambush predator, but not always.

This made me chuckle. Tried to think of a "long range predator" (other than man) ...couldn't.

Or at least not one dangerous to man. The Archerfish might qualify, if I were an insect...but everything I can think of has to actually touch you to harm you, oh wait, just thought of one, the Spitting Cobra,.

Point here is, that while a predator stalking you IS a threat, one you need to be aware of, you're not at physical risk until they get close enough to touch you. Shooting one across the meadow because it was headed your way may not be a justifiable act, compared to shooting when they are a double handful of yards away and charging , or close enough to pounce on you.

Very small pistols, while easiest to carry are notoriously difficult to shoot accurately, even at close range, which I think matters more than your choice of caliber or capacity. Both rounds are capable of doing the job, but only if the shooter can hit a vital spot.

[Mosin44az]

Shadow, I hear you on the base LCR. Mine is actually the .357 version, and the extra 3.5 ounces transforms the gun into the most comfortable.38 pocket revolver of any on the market. Just don’t shoot.357 out of it.

[Mosin44az]

By “close range ambush,” I meant one jumping on you from the bushes before you get a chance to draw. I referred to two alternative incidents where the cougar approached openly from a distance.

[FITASC]

Friends I know who have hunted mountain lions typically use a 38/357 after the dogs have treed them

[Mosin44az]

Yeah but totally different situation. People kill cougars with.22lr once their dogs have treed it. Let it bleed out and fall from its perch.

[RoyceP]

I think shot placement might be more important than caliber. A well placed body shot is one thing. Head shots would be better of course.

[John D]

A friend of mine told me a story about shooting a mountain lion that was threatening his wife and dog on his ranch. He is a retired LEO and shoots a .45ACP. She screamed, he came out and shot at the cat; found a blood trail but the cat ran off. That cat crashed through a fence and eventually ended up in a tree. It had been shot twice, once in the body and once in the neck. It finally bled to death and fell out of the tree. Unless you're Annie Oakley, I doubt that .38 snubbie is going to be able to place those shots in the "stopping zone".