Defense question: MOUNTAIN LIONS - Page 2

ngragg · January 13, 2012, 03:03 PM

Irish B · January 15, 2012, 07:09 PM

The 180gr hard cast buffalo bore ammo is a bit much for lion. The average lion is around 60 lbs and honestly the average "huge" lion that killed the neighbor's St Bernard is usually around 130 lbs. Rarely in the wild do we ever see lions up past 150 lbs. When I'm worried about walking in known bear areas I carry the Buffalo bore hc's but if I know I'm going to be in a known lion area I carry 158 gr starfires in my 357. I want something that will expand fast in the case of a thin skinned lion. I've never felt undergunned for either situation. Honestly though there's two dangerous situations where you're going to face a cat. One is if it's actually trying to hunt you in which case it won't matter if you have a .22 or a .454 you'll probably never even have a chance to draw the weapon before the cat makes a fatal wound on you. The second is crossing a cat on the trail in which case it usually takes little more than your voice to scare them off. I've come across a cat three times in my life and each time I was without a side arm but never even needed one. The cat always ran like a kitten when I proceeded towards it. A normal healthy lion will never charge you head on like a bear does. Like they always say it's the cat you don't see that kills you.

hagar · January 16, 2012, 08:05 PM

I don't agree with the size of the lions you speak of. I personally saw a lion in AZ that weighed at least 220 pounds, if not 250, crossing the road in front of us just before dawn (and legal shooting light) while going up Mount Ord. There was a lion that hung out at a spot on the Verde river that had footprints as big as soup plates, I tried calling it numerous times with an electronic caller, but no luck. Of course I also saw a lot of smaller prints in the 14 years I hunted there, the average lion probably goes around 100-140 pounds but there are some really BIG ones out there. One weekend I went to San Francisco to visit some friends of my my then girlfriend, they took us to a park well within city limits, and I saw some humongous lion prints there. They did not believe me it was a lion, "must be somebody's dog" the city slicker sneered at me.

Art Eatman · January 16, 2012, 08:39 PM

In the FWIW department: I put my clenched fist down in a big male's paw print, and there was about an inch of clearance all the way around my fist. So, I guess the lion at maybe 130 pounds or in that ballpark had a paw about 5.5 to 6 inches wide.

warbirdlover · January 16, 2012, 10:49 PM

I knew a guy from work who got a guide with dogs and shot an old one out of a tree (and actually thought he was a real hunter). In any case it weighed over 200 lbs. and most of it's teeth were gone. I saw the mount. It was huge and it made the record book. What it really weighed I can't say but it looked like it "could" weigh 200 lbs.

Art Eatman · January 17, 2012, 08:01 AM

The trouble with such stories is that a lion whose teeth are gone should be gaunt and emaciated, and way below normal in weight. (Happens to old deer, as well.)

Irish B · January 17, 2012, 05:22 PM

250 lbs is the size of the biggest fattest most rare lions. Maybe one in 5000 are above 200 lbs. Like I said everyone is positively sure the big lion they saw was well over 200 lbs when in reality it's usually not more than 150 at the most.

Wyoredman · January 17, 2012, 05:38 PM

Biggest one I've ever personaly seen caught in Wyoming was 165 pounds.

January 15, 2012, 07:09 PM	#27
Irish B Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 359	The 180gr hard cast buffalo bore ammo is a bit much for lion. The average lion is around 60 lbs and honestly the average "huge" lion that killed the neighbor's St Bernard is usually around 130 lbs. Rarely in the wild do we ever see lions up past 150 lbs. When I'm worried about walking in known bear areas I carry the Buffalo bore hc's but if I know I'm going to be in a known lion area I carry 158 gr starfires in my 357. I want something that will expand fast in the case of a thin skinned lion. I've never felt undergunned for either situation. Honestly though there's two dangerous situations where you're going to face a cat. One is if it's actually trying to hunt you in which case it won't matter if you have a .22 or a .454 you'll probably never even have a chance to draw the weapon before the cat makes a fatal wound on you. The second is crossing a cat on the trail in which case it usually takes little more than your voice to scare them off. I've come across a cat three times in my life and each time I was without a side arm but never even needed one. The cat always ran like a kitten when I proceeded towards it. A normal healthy lion will never charge you head on like a bear does. Like they always say it's the cat you don't see that kills you. __________________ If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live Last edited by Irish B; January 15, 2012 at 07:19 PM.

January 16, 2012, 08:05 PM	#28
hagar Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2000 Location: Colombia, SC Posts: 745	I don't agree with the size of the lions you speak of. I personally saw a lion in AZ that weighed at least 220 pounds, if not 250, crossing the road in front of us just before dawn (and legal shooting light) while going up Mount Ord. There was a lion that hung out at a spot on the Verde river that had footprints as big as soup plates, I tried calling it numerous times with an electronic caller, but no luck. Of course I also saw a lot of smaller prints in the 14 years I hunted there, the average lion probably goes around 100-140 pounds but there are some really BIG ones out there. One weekend I went to San Francisco to visit some friends of my my then girlfriend, they took us to a park well within city limits, and I saw some humongous lion prints there. They did not believe me it was a lion, "must be somebody's dog" the city slicker sneered at me. __________________ I don't have time for busy people

January 16, 2012, 10:49 PM	#30
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	I knew a guy from work who got a guide with dogs and shot an old one out of a tree (and actually thought he was a real hunter). In any case it weighed over 200 lbs. and most of it's teeth were gone. I saw the mount. It was huge and it made the record book. What it really weighed I can't say but it looked like it "could" weigh 200 lbs. Last edited by warbirdlover; January 17, 2012 at 08:42 PM.

January 17, 2012, 05:22 PM	#32
Irish B Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 359	250 lbs is the size of the biggest fattest most rare lions. Maybe one in 5000 are above 200 lbs. Like I said everyone is positively sure the big lion they saw was well over 200 lbs when in reality it's usually not more than 150 at the most. __________________ If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live

January 17, 2012, 05:38 PM	#33
Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,350	Biggest one I've ever personaly seen caught in Wyoming was 165 pounds. __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams!

January 13, 2012, 03:03 PM	#26
ngragg Member Join Date: January 13, 2012 Location: Cullman, AL Posts: 15

January 16, 2012, 08:39 PM	#29
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	In the FWIW department: I put my clenched fist down in a big male's paw print, and there was about an inch of clearance all the way around my fist. So, I guess the lion at maybe 130 pounds or in that ballpark had a paw about 5.5 to 6 inches wide.

January 17, 2012, 08:01 AM	#31
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	The trouble with such stories is that a lion whose teeth are gone should be gaunt and emaciated, and way below normal in weight. (Happens to old deer, as well.)