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Old May 13, 2018, 12:20 AM   #1
chrisintexas
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9mm, 9mm +p

Do you recommend 9mm +p over normal pressure 9mm? If so why and if not why not?
Thanks so much
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Old May 13, 2018, 11:25 AM   #2
T. O'Heir
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For what?
In any case, the use of +P requires a pistol rated for +P. And then you have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo you and your pistol shoot best.
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Old May 13, 2018, 11:57 AM   #3
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No, I don't recommend 9mm+p.

I don't use 9mm+p. Or +p+.

I don't have any +p rated 9mms.

I have one I know will take +p pressure, but I don't know if it is rated for +p, and it doesn't matter anyway. My 9mms are mostly milsurp collectables (Luger P.08, Walther P.38), and there is no way in heck I'm going to put "+p" through them.

I am also of the personal opinion that if you think you need +p, what you actually need is a different cartridge.

However, a different cartridge MAY mean a different gun, and that different gun may not suit your needs, or desires. There's no free lunch, so decide what is most important to you.
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Old May 13, 2018, 01:09 PM   #4
disseminator
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Just about all major manufacturer 9mm service size handguns can shoot +P all day long without issues.

Some examples:

M&P
GLOCK
SIG
HK

Check the manual for your gun, as long as it's rated for it by the manufacturer then don't worry about it. Many people and Police use the 124+P and I personally use 147+P (HST) and my reloads are at that level as well and many thousands of rounds later their are no issues.
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Old May 13, 2018, 03:49 PM   #5
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This is just an armchair opinion. I'm not an authority.

I'm not loading or buying any +P at the moment.

Consider if the gun in question was designed to use 40 S+W.

Standard 40S+W and standard 9mm are rated at the same pressure.(I looked this up before,its not hard for you to do,SAAMI pressure,9mm vs 40 S+W)

My way of looking at it,at the same pressure,the larger area of the 40 S+W bore/case head are like a larger hydraulic cylinder.
The way the numbers work out,the actual breech face loading of a 9mm+p is very close to the standard 40 S+W load.

Assuming equal spring rates,etc, it is my opinion (so what?) that ,for example,a S+W M+P pistol in 40 S+W ought to last about as many 40 S+W rounds as it would 9mm +P.

But I don't know that,and S+W might say I'm wrong.
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Old May 13, 2018, 04:43 PM   #6
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Any full size modern 9mm pistol will shoot +P ammo without any issues. What we label as +p here is standard issue in the rest of the world, that means a 124 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps. For reasons unknown to me the USA has always downloaded 9mm ammo to anemic levels. If you want to take full advantage of what 9mm was designed for there is no reason not to use +p ammo in it for defensive use. I shoot a lot of non +p ammo for plinking at the range, but +p is all I've ever carried in my guns.
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Old May 13, 2018, 05:34 PM   #7
Bill DeShivs
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Why does anyone think they need "+P?"
It really does nothing that standard pressure ammunition doesn't do.
It's simply marketing-and people fall for it.
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Old May 13, 2018, 09:47 PM   #8
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What we label as +p here is standard issue in the rest of the world, that means a 124 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps.
The rest of the world doesn't go by SAAMI standards or labels.

Now, here's an interesting thing, the original GERMAN 9mm Luger load was a 124gr bullet at 1050fps from a 100mm (4") barrel. One thousand fifty feet per second. NOT 1200fps. 1050fps. This was the load adopted by the German Navy in 1906 and the German Army in 1908 when they adopted the Luger pistol. (hence P.08)

Sometime around 1915 or slightly earlier, the load was changed, to a 115gr bullet at 1150fps (again from a 4", the standard Luger barrel)

During WWII, every nation that loaded the 9mm Luger round (and there were several besides Germany) loaded rounds of several different levels. Some where lighter than the "standard" 115gr ball, several were higher and some very much higher pressures. Some were identified as "+p" (or that nation's equivalent term), some were not. Some were identified with "not for _____, some said "for SMG use", some said nothing at all different from the regular ammo.

If you are talking about current manufacture firearms, and "+p" ammo, from known and trusted makers, one who either follows SAAMI or lists the actual pressures, that's one thing. If you're looking at something else, something simply marked "+p", it becomes a matter of trust.

DO you REALLY know what you are getting???

Your gun, your ammo, your wallet, so its your call.
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Old May 13, 2018, 10:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
The rest of the world doesn't go by SAAMI standards or labels.

If you are talking about current manufacture firearms, and "+p" ammo, from known and trusted makers, one who either follows SAAMI or lists the actual pressures, that's one thing. If you're looking at something else, something simply marked "+p", it becomes a matter of trust. Do you have evidence that manufacturers are not complying with SAAMI +P pressures? If so, can you direct us to this source of information? Thanks.

DO you REALLY know what you are getting???

Your gun, your ammo, your wallet, so its your call.
The rest of the world goes by C.I.P. standards, and they might be legally obligated to conform to these standards. C.I.P. and SAAMI use the same psi metric, but their methods are slightly different, resulting in slightly different values.

http://www.cip-bobp.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis...ition_approval
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Old May 14, 2018, 12:33 AM   #10
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A good 9mm pistol is one that has passed the military tests such as HK, Glock, Sig , etc.
9mm +P is defined by SAAMI but 9mm+P+ is not defined ! Stay away from +P+ .
There seems to be a lot of anti-40 S&W .But in my experience the 40 is a lot closer to the 45acp rather than the 9 +P.
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Old May 14, 2018, 02:31 AM   #11
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chrisintexas, I'm not in a position to recommend what ammunition others should use, but will share my 2ยข worth on +P and +P+. I was issued +P for years, and have used a fair amount of +P+ in a variety of 9MM firearms. Some LE agencies issue +P, and +P+ is used by others. Is it likely that LE agencies would tend to purchase ammunition likely to reduce service life, damage firearms, endanger personnel or the public? Having worked in LE for 30+ years, that was not my impression. Apparently LE agencies, who actually spend time and effort exploring these issues, see some value in use of +P and +P+ ammunition. I routinely see owners of 9MM firearms indicating concern over use of +P , +P+, and even NATO ammo, in their firearms. If one has a concern, I'd say just don't use +P,+P+. Plenty of standard pressure ammo available. I can only say that use of thousands of rounds of the ammo under discussion,and equivalent reloads, has not produced any detectable ill effects to pistols, revolvers or carbines I've used it in. Perhaps I should add that the higher pressure ammunition is not the only ammunition I use, and I don't use this ammunition in war surplus firearms (P-38/P-1s for example) or any firearms of dubious heritage or condition.....ymmv
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Old May 14, 2018, 04:23 AM   #12
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mete, I did not notice anyone but me mention the 40 S+W,

I did not intend to say anything negative about the 40 S+W

I just put "SAAMI pressure 9mm vs 40 S+W " in the search bar.

One of the results is here:

http://handloads.com/misc/saami.htm

It says both 9mm and 40 S+W (standard,not +P) are 35,000 psi.

9mm +p is 38.500,or +10 %

real quick and easy,if you do that pi times the radius squared thing,just use .400 and .356 to get an idea,the .40 has roughly 10% more area than the 9mm.

If I understand it right,that would imply the 40 S+W stresses a gun about the same as a 9mm +p.,if we are talking SAAMI pressures.
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Old May 14, 2018, 05:33 AM   #13
mete
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I don't remember who started it ? But PDs are going back to the 9mm.
My comments are based on shooting things like 'chucks , feral dogs etc .
In my experience caliber DOES make a difference !
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Old May 14, 2018, 08:32 AM   #14
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While I'm not a fan of +P....

I do believe there's a place for it.
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Old May 14, 2018, 09:12 AM   #15
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TNoutdoors9 has done extensive ballistics gel testing of many std pressure and +p 9mm options. There is basically no difference in penetration or expansion between std and +p in the same brand. So personally I see no benefit to +p. My preference is 147 grain federal hst non +p.
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Old May 14, 2018, 02:52 PM   #16
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All the Kahr 9mm pistols are rated for +P.

Haven't run any through my CW9 yet, but wouldn't mind getting a little more velocity out of it.


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Old May 14, 2018, 03:11 PM   #17
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Would I recommend a +P? Sure. If if got velocity over 1,100. I know hollow points have come a long way, but 1,100 really does ensure that there's that mushroom going on. That's important to me.
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Old May 14, 2018, 03:27 PM   #18
Don P
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Quote:
I am also of the personal opinion that if you think you need +p, what you actually need is a different cartridge.
As 44 AMP stated in the above quote I concur. Not enough bang in 9 mm get a 40 S&W and if that's not enough bang, get a 45 acp and if that's not enough get a 44 MAG and so on
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Old May 14, 2018, 03:35 PM   #19
74A95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don P View Post
As 44 AMP stated in the above quote I concur. Not enough bang in 9 mm get a 40 S&W
Why buy a whole new gun when you can get the same effect by simply using different ammo?
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Old May 14, 2018, 03:43 PM   #20
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Why pound the gun with hotter loads?????? Your gun, your money. Beat on your equipment as you see fit
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Old May 14, 2018, 05:15 PM   #21
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I wouldn't recommend +P in any instance.
If standard-pressure 9mm won't get the job done, get a bigger gun.
Same for .45 ACP+P.
While I'm of the opinion that 9mm "needs all the help it can get", I don't think there's enough ballistic improvement with +P to justify the additional recoil, muzzle blast, etc.
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Old May 14, 2018, 05:27 PM   #22
74A95
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I wouldn't recommend +P in any instance.
If standard-pressure 9mm won't get the job done, get a bigger gun.
Same for .45 ACP+P.
While I'm of the opinion that 9mm "needs all the help it can get", I don't think there's enough ballistic improvement with +P to justify the additional recoil, muzzle blast, etc.
Wouldn't a bigger gun/more powerful cartridge produce more recoil and muzzle blast, too?
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Old May 14, 2018, 05:45 PM   #23
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I'm not using +p. I don't advocate for +p. Would I try it,or use it in my M+P? Sure.
If we are talking SAAMI +p,its 38,500 for +p,and 35,000 for standard. That's 10%

I do understand taking care of older collectables,and lightly built carry pieces.

I also don't believe +10% in pressure will be a game changer in cartridge performance. Its a shade of grey.

But I also don't want to bet my life on any gun so lame,weinie,marginal,or poor that another 3500 psi will make it fall apart.

If I'm going to shoot 100 rounds at targets,why use =p???

If I feel better believing the marketing that +p turns my M+P 9 C into a dragon slaying hammer of Thor so long as I pay $8 more a box,so be it.

Because its expensive enough I probably won't shoot more than 250 a year.

Much ado about not much.
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Old May 14, 2018, 05:48 PM   #24
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Wouldn't a bigger gun/more powerful cartridge produce more recoil and muzzle blast, too?
Indeed, there is no free lunch.

However, a bigger, heavier gun does go part of the way to cancelling out the recoil. So, it becomes a matter of your personal priorities, what are you willing to live with, to get something, vs. what are you willing to give up to keep something???

If you have to have one of the micro sized pocket guns, there are limitation to what power level can be used in the gun, both mechanically, and practically.

You can build a .44 Magnum the size of a pocket 9mm. It won't hold many rounds, and you won't be able to shoot it fast and accurately (assuming you can even hold on to it past the first shot), but each round is much more powerful than a 9mm Luger.

Or you can have a 6lb 9mm "pistol" built on an AR15 platform. Recoil is about nil, but its a 6lb pistol, and about twice the size of a 9mm duty pistol (or more).

Most people don't want either of these extremes.
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Old May 14, 2018, 06:37 PM   #25
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If the job requires a 9mm+P .....I get the 41 magnum out.
I like to use enough gun .
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