9mm, 9mm +p - Page 3

HiBC · June 13, 2018, 03:34 AM

I'm not taking anything away from the 357 Sig.Its SAAMI max pressure is 40,000 psi. Standard 9mm and 40 S+W are 35,000,9mm +p is 38,500.
10mm Auto is 37,500.

If a gun is designed for 10 mm auto,a .357 Sig would be at +P pressure for the gun.

My understanding is that the Sheild was designed for the 40 S+W from the start. Both the 40 and the 9mm standard is 35,000 psi. All other things equal,including pressure,a larger cartridge with greater bore/breech surface area will stress a gun more,as the pressure is applied to the surface area.

In a Shield,the locking surfaces and breech will have roughly the same experience from a 9mm +P as they would from a 40 S+W. I'd expect a Shield in 40 S+W to last about the same round count as a Shield fed 9mm+p. However,thats just my opinion.S+W might disagree.

If the 357 Sig is in a particular gun,say a 1911,brass strength aside,the 40,000 psi 357 Sig is just as hard on the gun as 40,000 psi +p+ 38 Super loads.

There is no free lunch.Everything is a tradeoff.

Don P · June 15, 2018, 06:48 AM

All I'll add to the thread is this, this is not intended to insult anyone, or to hurt their feeling, or to be derogatory in any way.
There is a saying, to get a fool to depart with his/her money.
The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money. The art of the con

Hal · June 15, 2018, 07:06 AM

Quote:

The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money.

While I believe there's a lot of truth to that, I also have to believe that +P and +P+ have their place.
Looking at the stats on BBI, I see that the standard pressure 9mm from a 4 and/or 5 inch barrel is nearly equaled by the +P rounds from a 2 and/or 3 inch barrel.

I'm currently in the market for a sub-compact 9mm to either replace or supplant my .380 LCP.
Should I choose to go that route, I'm pretty sure I'll go with a +P in it for carry.

OTOH - the sheer mountain of crap going around concerning the supposedly "magical" performance of +P and +P+ is sort of comical

jr24 · June 15, 2018, 08:25 AM

In 124 grain I don't mind +P as there often is a reasonable upgrade in performance (in gel, for whatever that is actually worth) and I don't notice significant increase in recoil or slower splits times.

I prefer, however, standard pressure 147 grain in my 9mms because that's was runs best for me, with acceptable performance with HST bullets.

I do primarily shoot and carry a gun with at leadt a 4" barrel, for what it's worth.

HiBC · June 15, 2018, 10:47 AM

Just for perspective,there is another active thread about a barrel to convert a 40 S+W Shield to 357 Sig for $135. Mostly,everyone is saying it works great and they are happy.

I looked up SAAMI max for 357 Sig,its 40,000 psi,plus the greater area of the 40 S+W case had.

There is no sentiment of "You could put your eye out" in that thread,yet here 9mm +P is greeted with skepticism.

FWIW,I mostly shoot Walmart WW White box 115 gr hardball.Its cheap.

Because it was on the shelf,available,I bought and reliability tested 115 gr Critical Defense. It runs.

I'm sure there is better ammo.I think I'd like 147 gr +p what? HST's or HSM's?? I have not tried any. Maybe some time.

I'm thinking its subtle shades of grey difference.The 115 Critical Defense will work.Its not even +P.

But,I COULD give up a couple of roundscapacity and put a.357 Sig barrel on it.(If it was a .40. Its a 9mm. Moot point,I'm not going to)

peacefulgary · June 19, 2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money. The art of the con

Only if you ignore math and physics.

Go and shoot a 125g .38 Special round out of a S&W aluminum frame snub-nosed revolver.

And then shoot a 125g .357 Magnum round out of that same revolver.

Then come back and tell us that velocity doesn't matter.

June 15, 2018, 06:48 AM	#52
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	All I'll add to the thread is this, this is not intended to insult anyone, or to hurt their feeling, or to be derogatory in any way. There is a saying, to get a fool to depart with his/her money. The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money. The art of the con __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

June 15, 2018, 10:47 AM	#55
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Just for perspective,there is another active thread about a barrel to convert a 40 S+W Shield to 357 Sig for $135. Mostly,everyone is saying it works great and they are happy. I looked up SAAMI max for 357 Sig,its 40,000 psi,plus the greater area of the 40 S+W case had. There is no sentiment of "You could put your eye out" in that thread,yet here 9mm +P is greeted with skepticism. FWIW,I mostly shoot Walmart WW White box 115 gr hardball.Its cheap. Because it was on the shelf,available,I bought and reliability tested 115 gr Critical Defense. It runs. I'm sure there is better ammo.I think I'd like 147 gr +p what? HST's or HSM's?? I have not tried any. Maybe some time. I'm thinking its subtle shades of grey difference.The 115 Critical Defense will work.Its not even +P. But,I COULD give up a couple of roundscapacity and put a.357 Sig barrel on it.(If it was a .40. Its a 9mm. Moot point,I'm not going to) Last edited by HiBC; June 15, 2018 at 11:25 AM.

June 13, 2018, 03:34 AM	#51
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I'm not taking anything away from the 357 Sig.Its SAAMI max pressure is 40,000 psi. Standard 9mm and 40 S+W are 35,000,9mm +p is 38,500. 10mm Auto is 37,500. If a gun is designed for 10 mm auto,a .357 Sig would be at +P pressure for the gun. My understanding is that the Sheild was designed for the 40 S+W from the start. Both the 40 and the 9mm standard is 35,000 psi. All other things equal,including pressure,a larger cartridge with greater bore/breech surface area will stress a gun more,as the pressure is applied to the surface area. In a Shield,the locking surfaces and breech will have roughly the same experience from a 9mm +P as they would from a 40 S+W. I'd expect a Shield in 40 S+W to last about the same round count as a Shield fed 9mm+p. However,thats just my opinion.S+W might disagree. If the 357 Sig is in a particular gun,say a 1911,brass strength aside,the 40,000 psi 357 Sig is just as hard on the gun as 40,000 psi +p+ 38 Super loads. There is no free lunch.Everything is a tradeoff.

June 15, 2018, 08:25 AM	#54
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	In 124 grain I don't mind +P as there often is a reasonable upgrade in performance (in gel, for whatever that is actually worth) and I don't notice significant increase in recoil or slower splits times. I prefer, however, standard pressure 147 grain in my 9mms because that's was runs best for me, with acceptable performance with HST bullets. I do primarily shoot and carry a gun with at leadt a 4" barrel, for what it's worth.