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Old May 16, 2018, 05:23 PM   #1
konstan
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Reloading manuals. Are the newest worth it?

Noob reloading question. For known calibers, are the older reloading manuals obsolete? Because of new powder data or new bullets available?

To rephrase: is a 1980's reloading manual i.e. the load data therein still relevant, or is it only collectors' value?
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Old May 16, 2018, 05:55 PM   #2
HiBC
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In the 1980's,I might be wrong,but DuPont may have still been the source for IMR powders.
Over time and corporate moves,fires,etc,powders are mostly not coming from the same source they were in the 80's.
Plus,there are a lot of new ones to play with.

I worked as a machinist in a manufacturing plant.Policy was EVERY document or drawing had to be dated,and it was obsolete in 24 hours. That included drawings,color code charts,etc. Its called "controlled documents"

I won't say you need to buy every new edition of your loading manuals.
But the 1980's is a bit old for data. The knowledge of technique and process and safety is good.

A lot of current data is online,for free. Hogdon,for example.

Probably your WalMart will have a current copy of the Hogdon Reloading Annual. Its in magazine format.I like those.
A nice feature in the current Hornady manual is a section on match loadsfor AR type rifles.

I believe if you look in the "Reloading" sticky section,there is a post of links to official sources of online reloading data.

I suggest you keep your manual,but have,and use,alternative current data.

Its always good to compare and check multiple sources. I might use a Nosler bullet manual and a Hogdon powder manual,if I am using those products.

Its easy to note "verified May,2018" in the margin of your manual beside the load you use.
That said,I always find some gold nuggets in a new manual.

Last edited by HiBC; May 16, 2018 at 06:04 PM.
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Old May 16, 2018, 06:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Noob reloading question. For known calibers, are the older reloading manuals obsolete? Because of new powder data or new bullets available?

To rephrase: is a 1980's reloading manual i.e. the load data therein still relevant, or is it only collectors' value?
Strictly speaking of a load data perspective, they are outdated. Print media is outdated before it hits the market. The powder makers all have the latest data on their websites, and since they do the testing, I would go with their latest data.

Now all of the ballistic tables, and other stuff in most manuals is good stuff
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Old May 16, 2018, 06:33 PM   #4
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I have observed that newer resources are more conservative, but a 1980's manual can still have relevant load data. I consult multiple resources for my load data, old and new.
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Old May 16, 2018, 06:51 PM   #5
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Powder formulations have changed over the years. Using old data with new propellants might be a source of problems
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Old May 16, 2018, 07:13 PM   #6
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Thanks to the replies guys.

Ugh sorry posted in the wrong form, if the mods see this could you guys please move it?
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Old May 16, 2018, 07:48 PM   #7
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Here is a powder maker website, this is excellent data for free - but be careful.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

or

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

I checked 6.5x55, H4831 I am using 41 grains with 160 grain bullets in old small ring M96 Mauser.

The website shows 44 start and 48 max. But, no verbage. is this for modern rifles of the old guns. I have a lot of books and some or one, broke down the data for older guns and I am close to the top (or well past mid point) for the load for the older guns. The older manuals are much hotter. I dont need/want that kind of load.
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Old May 16, 2018, 08:29 PM   #8
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Older manuals list what kind of gun they used for the testing now days there are a lot of universal receiver used. This is good to know when loading for a vintage gun or a gas operated one . Some time back I was working on a 30-40 Krag the data I used came from a new manual and the choice of powder came from the old manual .
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Old May 16, 2018, 09:08 PM   #9
4V50 Gary
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You can never have too much information. I have some older manuals and some newer ones.
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Old May 16, 2018, 10:08 PM   #10
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you wanna know whats funny... the best deal I can find on a newish Lee Modern Reloading is retail @ cabelas, $19.99.... go figure...
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Old May 16, 2018, 10:34 PM   #11
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The manual is valuable because it INSTRUCTS. It says what to do and why. That doesn't change much.

Current powder data is free from the manufacturers.
If you want recipes specific to a particular brand of bullet, not used or not identified by the powder company without having to "work up" from generic or other brand data, you should buy the current edition.

We are frequently told that powder specifications and even sources change over time. But if I were going to make a really significant change in my product, I would give it a new name. So wouldn't the powder company?

It used to seem strange that all these revised specs lead to lighter powder charges, but Slamfire finally gave a credible explanation.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:29 PM   #12
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Sometimes an old manual will be your only source of tested data. Powder formulations are still about producing a desired range of pressures to give a desired range of velocities.
The only real difference between a new edition and an old one will be the velocities. The data itself is perfectly safe to use. Mind you, a newer edition will usually have data for cartridges developed since the old one was published. For example, there's no .40 S&W in my old Lyman book.
There's a lot of daft nonsense on Hodgdon's site too. They show magnum primers for magnum named cartridges but not with non-magnum cartridges with the same powder.
"...recipes specific to a particular brand of bullet..." That you do not need. One loads by the bullet weight. Not who made it or its shape or construction. Except for solid copper bullets.
Universal receivers have been used for eons.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:34 PM   #13
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Well, I did say "want" a recipe, not need.
A lot of people work themselves into a swivet when they cannot find data for exactly what they bought without research.

Universal receivers, PV barrels, and the instrumentation are not cheap, and used to be worse. A lot of the older manuals are based on educated eyeball pressure estimates in production gun.
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Old May 17, 2018, 11:18 PM   #14
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I bought the 50th edition of Lyman mostly because it had .327 Magnum loading data in it, but that's probably something I could have found off a manufacturer's website.

I think it's good to have at least one manual and if you're going to be using long established powders and cartridges that have been around a while, you'd be fine. Whatever new powders that have come out in the past 10, 20, or 30 years, if you find a use for them, that's when you get data directly from the manufacturer, be it a physical manual or off the internet.
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Old May 18, 2018, 04:58 PM   #15
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You get all sorts of opinions on the internet.

A few individuals post with great confidence,and a self proclaimed noob might believe them. Be careful . Use your own head to take care of yourself.

THIS LOAD IS OUTDATED<OBSOLETE<AND DANGEROUS<DON"T USE IT.

Long ago,both Sierra and Hogdon blessed as OK my load for a 7mm Rem Mag of 70 gr of H-4831 behind a 160 gr Sierra BT. At that time,PO Ackley was a column writer for American Rifleman.He estimated it would be about 65,000 psi.

once again,DO NOT USE THAT LOAD. Today,it really is a serious overload.

We usd to use the PO Ackley "Handbook for Shooters " as a viable source for load data.
It was useful in its day.
A friend's Dad built a Mauser 30-06 back in the day.His Dad's elk hunting buddy loaded all his ammo. Tha Dad asks the Old Loader to make some ammo so the son could use the rifle hunting.
My friend comes to me. " My Dad's '06 REALLY kicks. (I shrug) And it gets this black stuff inside and the primers fall out.Is it supposed to do that?"

My eyebrows go up. I say "Do not shoot any more of those.Find and account for all of them" Those pockets were splayed out,and case heads separated.

The Old Loader wrote the data down.It was a classic H-4895 load from the PO Ackley book. It was safe,in the day. But Hogdon Powder went from Surplus to Newly Manufactured. Same designation,as in "H-4895" .But maybe 10% reduction in charge weight.

That is an extreme example. But powders that were made in the USA are now made in Australia,or Sweden,or Switzerland,or who knows? In a different plant by different people.
Copper crusher pressure measurements have been replaced by more precise tech.
Powders have been made to burn cleaner or be more temperature tolerant or meter better. The recipe is changed while the name remains the same.

I'll say it again,your old books are still useful,but I strongly advise you supplement/verify the data against current ,on line data.

And don't be afraid to contact the manufacturer tech help.

Some more bad,untrue,and unsafe advice is that all bullets of the same weight will produce the same pressure.
Jacket thickness,hardness,length of bearing surface,base configuration,partitions,etc all have an effect on pressure.

Make note of who to give credibility.
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Old May 18, 2018, 05:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konstan View Post
you wanna know whats funny... the best deal I can find on a newish Lee Modern Reloading is retail @ cabelas, $19.99.... go figure...
Konstan, that's not a bad source to start with. You can get load data online from many powder and a few projectile companies. Also you can send an email to some projectile companies like Sierra for specific advice on a powder/projectile combination.

Try these websites for load data online: Hodgdon, Alliant, Nosler and Speer. There are others...
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Old May 18, 2018, 05:29 PM   #17
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This will get you a "Sticky post" here on TFL of online data sources

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=435562
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Old May 20, 2018, 11:10 AM   #18
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I just peruse through my old reloading manuals year after year. I seldom change powder brands & grades.
Yup! Book read Recipes long ago tweaked to ultimate performance for my firearms still using. On second thought "Why would I go through all that experimentation and additional cost to gain so little benefit from what I now experience.
A yup! All's good so far. Haven't blown up a receiver yet firing up those old published recipes many of today's rookie home reloaders promote shouldn't be used because of powder strength.

Than again I'm not that type of home reloader that just has to try every new powder just shelved at the local gun shop. Frankly: New powders don't interest me anymore. Discontinued older popular powders without a doubt will always perk my interest though.
As a seasoned home reloader.
Would I buy new reloading books. Probably not. Reason being: So much reloading info can be had for free on the internet these days why bother buy in published book form.
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