J.C. Higgins 20 12ga. Problem

Alec151 · March 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

Hi all. This is my very first post, so sorry about any faux pas. Anyway, I fancy myself an amateur tinkerer, and so when my very first gun, an old J.C. Higgins 12ga pump shotgun, broke, I just couldn't throw it out. I've been staring at it for over a year and still haven't had any success, and I'm calling in backup.

I was shooting some pretty ancient paper hull birdshot when the operating arm sheared clear off at the forearm, throw the bolt back, and peppered a barn on my right with shattered shell brass. No one was hurt, but it got put away real quick, and the ammo is long gone. Anyway, I managed to get the operating arm brazed back in, and its pretty well aligned. No other part appears damaged or misaligned at all, and the action now operates pretty well, but the shell carrier simply won't drop far enough down to pick up the next shell and keeps blocking it on its way out of the mag. It does, however, swing up and in properly. I have pictures and a schematic to post as well if desired. I'm hoping anyone with any pump-action experience can give me a hand getting this thing off my bench and back into the safe.

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 21, 2014, 07:34 AM

First, I take it you mean that when you shot the gun, the bolt flew back on its own, and some of the shell exploded out of the side of the gun, through the ejection port? If it did, that sounds like the action slide release didn't lock the forearm/action bar forward, and allowed everything to come back when it was fired.

I'm pretty sure this is the same gun as a Hi-Standard Flite King shotgun, and has a bolt similar to a 31 Remington in it. Actually, the action is close to a 31, too, but not exact. Anyhow, it may be possible, when under firing pressure, that if the action slide release is not blocking the slide bar, that the bolt could come unlocked, and everything fly back. Numrich has the entire action slide release assembly, (the button you push to release the forearm), and I would replace it as one unit if its what's bad.

Alec151 · March 21, 2014, 11:23 AM

Dixie,

That's exactly what happened. But even so, I am pretty confident that the action was properly locked, and it locks smooth and strong now. And I know Numrich's, they sell an incredible variety of hard-to-find parts. Problem is, I'm on a budget and I'm not even sure what part is disformed. It all looks ok, and it would be more convenient just to buy a new gun than swap out the entire action. Besides, where's the fun in that?!

I will say, I put a small bead of solder on what Numrich's tells me is the carrier operating cam. Cycled perfectly with a full range of motion until the solder failed.

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 21, 2014, 12:47 PM

The way that gun is supposed to work, is the action slide release lever, (the button), supposed to come up behind the action slide, when the bolt closes. The action slide is supposed to have a teat on it, that rides against the slide release lever's end, and keep it from coming unlocked, even after firing, until the forearm is pulled slightly forward, to which the button goes up into the trigger guard, and you can then wrench the forearm back. The recoil of the gun firing is generally enough to cause the forward movement of the forearm, so you can operate it afterwards, but any other time, you should have to slightly push it forwards first to operate it. (See edit at bottom)

There is a pin, sticking out of the left side of the hammer, that is supposed to catch a wire spring which comes out of the lever (button). If the end of the lever is worn, and there is no friction from the action slides teat to hold it, it will go down with the hammer, without slightly moving the forearm forward, so it could all come back when fired. There is also a spring on the magazine tube, that is supposed to keep the forearm held back, so the lever will not move when fired, and the end of the lever and the action slide should stay together, under friction, which is caused by the spring on the magazine tube.

First, you'll need to check and see if the spring on the outside of the magazine tube, which is inside the forearms tube, is compressed together, and bad. It should be open, and be mashing back against the forearms tube. If it is, you'll need to see if you can look up into the action, around the carrier, and see if the action slide release lever stays up, and in contact with the teat of the action slide, when you release the hammer as if firing it. If it falls, without pulling the forearm forward, then the spring on the outside of the magazine could be bad, or the levers end is worn down, or the teat on the action slide is worn down, so the lever can't stay up.

The Model 12 Winchester works in the same manner, and I think this is where they got the idea, as this gun is kind of a cross between a Model 12 Winchester, and a 31 Remington with some other changes.

The carrier on the model 20 should be a wrap-around type, similar to the 31 Remington, and has a pin on either arm, that fits into the frame. You should be able to look right through it at the bottom of the bolt, and even see the action bar, and I think the lever behind it. I am not sure where you added the solder to. Do you have a photo of it? Also, a photo of the end of the action slide, one of the trigger guard, on the release button side, and one of the spring on the outside of the magazine tube would help.

If it is the lever bad, Numrich has it listed as a complete assembly, (lever and two wire springs), with the part number 393740C, Action Slide Release Lever Assembly, $16.25 under the Hi-Standard, Flite King, K-120. The outer magazine spring is: 393790C, Action Slide Spring, $5.45.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...904.htm?page=1

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...995.htm?page=1

Edit:

I spoke wrong on the action slide bar, the teat isn't on it, but it is on the action slide that carries the bolt itself. So, if there is any wear, it would be on it, not the rod from the forearm, I was thinking of the Model 12.

The action slide is part number 393480, Action Slide, Stripped, $35.00

The teat sticks out on the left rear of the action slide, and it is what comes into contact with the action slide release lever. If it is bad, on some early models, there is a spring and plunger that would have to be removed, and placed back onto the new slide.

.

Alec151 · March 25, 2014, 12:57 PM

Dixie,

Sorry for the delay, class got tough there for a few. But everything you're saying sounds exactly right to this shotgun, and the action slide looks almost exactly the same. I haven't looked (or noticed) the action lock teat you've mentioned, but I'll take a closer look. Also, the forearm spring seems well enough expanded to be operating properly. However, the real problem, as you mentioned, is in the wrap-around shell carrier. It doesn't fully drop to catch the shell out of the magazine, and I suspect that this is indicative of some other issue. This all began right after the action lock failed. In what I consider to be unrelated, one of the two cartridge catches (which hold the shell in the tube until the carrier drops) has failed, and when I shoot it (still fires fine) or rack it firmly, one or more shells often pop right out. This also began around the failure. I think they're mechanically unrelated, but can't be certain.

I've got all the parts disassembled (except the trigger group) and I'll bring everything upstairs to get some good pictures of the parts and post the schematic. Anything is particular I can take a shot of?

Dixie Gunsmithing · March 25, 2014, 01:54 PM

Maybe a good shot of the carrier, and put a dob of ink where you added solder with a marker so I can see where it is.

When it all slammed back, it may have bent the carrier a little, somehow, and even hurt the RH cartridge stop. This part, I'll have to look over, as I can't remember what order they're supposed to work on this gun. I think they should be close to a 31 Rem., so I'll have to dig out my Remington manual, and it may be tomorrow. Anyhow, the action slide works the right hand cart. stop off two cams. The rear cam is hit by the action slide to operate it when it is wrenched back. Where this all slammed back, it could have done something to the rear cam on it. The LH cart. stop is a little different than the 31, but it still should work the same, so it slamming shouldn't have hurt its action. It is supposed to keep any shells from coming out of the bottom when the bolt is closed though. Check to make sure it still has a spring pushing it out to hit the shells rim.

The action slide also works the carrier, and allows it to fall when the bolt is going back, and pushes it up, when the bolt is forward. If it was bent, it may not come down low enough to allow a shell to slide easily onto it.

Edit added:

I took a look, and the left cart. stop works off a cam track in the operating rod that goes to the forearm. When you brazed this back, it may have got this off, and when the bolt is locked forward, it may not be releasing the LH cart. stop, so you have shells not staying in the magazine.

The RH cart. stop, the one on the ejection side, is used to keep the shells from double loading onto the carrier.

Another thing to check is when the bolt is starting to go back, and the carrier starts to go down, the LH cart. stop supposed to open, and let a shell out to hit the front of the carrier, which holds it in until it drops all the way, so the shell can go back on it. Here, the RH cart. stop keeps the shell behind that one from following it out.

Alec151 · April 1, 2014, 04:27 PM

Dixie,

I hijacked Numrich's schematic. Don't think you need it, but it helps me anyway. Sadly, the upload limit forced me to crop the hell out of the photo, but what you're looking at is the left side of the carrier/bolt. The part the arrow points at is the carrier operating cam (Numrich Part #14). This is what pushes down on the carrier on the backstroke, and then the action slide pushes up on the forestroke. I put a small bead of solder on the carrier cam where it meets the carrier (you can probably see I haven't cleaned it up again yet, and no surprise the solder didn't last) and it seemed to dramatically improve full cycling. Problem is, I don't know if there is actual damage to the cam. Numrich sells 'em for like $8, but if mine is still in spec dimensionally, that doesn't help. Do you know if it's possible that years of wear and a pretty violent strike against the carrier (because there is significant freeplay between strokes) could have actually dented or damaged the cam significantly enough to not fully push the carrier down?

Dixie Gunsmithing · April 1, 2014, 08:24 PM

Alec151,

When that all came back, from what it did, it could have displaced metal in several places, but mainly cam surfaces which act with the action slide or the action slide rod (from the forearm), since they hit these surfaces they act on hard when both went back.

You would really need to look at the surface of the carrier arm, that rides against that cam, to see if it looks like its wore down, or if it was the carrier cam wore, as either could cause it to not drop quite far enough. However, the cam on the action slide, being smaller, would be the one to ware the fastest.

Another thing to look at, is when the carrier is moving down, at a certain spot, the LH shell latch should release a shell, and the the rear of the shell should be stopped from coming out by the front of the carrier. Then when the carrier is all the way down, and the bolt back, it should be low enough to clear the rear of the shell, and allow it to be pushed out onto the top of the carrier, in which the RH shell latch should be raised up, and blocking the shell that was behind it from coming out also. This is the sequence that it should have, if you still have problems with the shells.

If you were to repair the cam on the action slide, it would be best to get a spot of weld put on it with TIG, and then reshaped, as solder, and even brass from brazing, will ware, but brass would be in between on the toughness. The only other fix might be swell the metal of the cam face backwards with a center punch, and then fit it. You might be able to hold it in a vise, and strike the metal with the center punch and a hammer a couple of places, right in front of the cam surface at maybe 1/16" ahead of it, to get it to swell out rearwards. My guess, though, is that it was hardened, and it may not be easy to do.

March 21, 2014, 12:47 PM	#4
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The way that gun is supposed to work, is the action slide release lever, (the button), supposed to come up behind the action slide, when the bolt closes. The action slide is supposed to have a teat on it, that rides against the slide release lever's end, and keep it from coming unlocked, even after firing, until the forearm is pulled slightly forward, to which the button goes up into the trigger guard, and you can then wrench the forearm back. The recoil of the gun firing is generally enough to cause the forward movement of the forearm, so you can operate it afterwards, but any other time, you should have to slightly push it forwards first to operate it. (See edit at bottom) There is a pin, sticking out of the left side of the hammer, that is supposed to catch a wire spring which comes out of the lever (button). If the end of the lever is worn, and there is no friction from the action slides teat to hold it, it will go down with the hammer, without slightly moving the forearm forward, so it could all come back when fired. There is also a spring on the magazine tube, that is supposed to keep the forearm held back, so the lever will not move when fired, and the end of the lever and the action slide should stay together, under friction, which is caused by the spring on the magazine tube. First, you'll need to check and see if the spring on the outside of the magazine tube, which is inside the forearms tube, is compressed together, and bad. It should be open, and be mashing back against the forearms tube. If it is, you'll need to see if you can look up into the action, around the carrier, and see if the action slide release lever stays up, and in contact with the teat of the action slide, when you release the hammer as if firing it. If it falls, without pulling the forearm forward, then the spring on the outside of the magazine could be bad, or the levers end is worn down, or the teat on the action slide is worn down, so the lever can't stay up. The Model 12 Winchester works in the same manner, and I think this is where they got the idea, as this gun is kind of a cross between a Model 12 Winchester, and a 31 Remington with some other changes. The carrier on the model 20 should be a wrap-around type, similar to the 31 Remington, and has a pin on either arm, that fits into the frame. You should be able to look right through it at the bottom of the bolt, and even see the action bar, and I think the lever behind it. I am not sure where you added the solder to. Do you have a photo of it? Also, a photo of the end of the action slide, one of the trigger guard, on the release button side, and one of the spring on the outside of the magazine tube would help. If it is the lever bad, Numrich has it listed as a complete assembly, (lever and two wire springs), with the part number 393740C, Action Slide Release Lever Assembly, $16.25 under the Hi-Standard, Flite King, K-120. The outer magazine spring is: 393790C, Action Slide Spring, $5.45. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...904.htm?page=1 https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...995.htm?page=1 Edit: I spoke wrong on the action slide bar, the teat isn't on it, but it is on the action slide that carries the bolt itself. So, if there is any wear, it would be on it, not the rod from the forearm, I was thinking of the Model 12. The action slide is part number 393480, Action Slide, Stripped, $35.00 The teat sticks out on the left rear of the action slide, and it is what comes into contact with the action slide release lever. If it is bad, on some early models, there is a spring and plunger that would have to be removed, and placed back onto the new slide. . Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; March 21, 2014 at 02:00 PM.

March 25, 2014, 01:54 PM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Maybe a good shot of the carrier, and put a dob of ink where you added solder with a marker so I can see where it is. When it all slammed back, it may have bent the carrier a little, somehow, and even hurt the RH cartridge stop. This part, I'll have to look over, as I can't remember what order they're supposed to work on this gun. I think they should be close to a 31 Rem., so I'll have to dig out my Remington manual, and it may be tomorrow. Anyhow, the action slide works the right hand cart. stop off two cams. The rear cam is hit by the action slide to operate it when it is wrenched back. Where this all slammed back, it could have done something to the rear cam on it. The LH cart. stop is a little different than the 31, but it still should work the same, so it slamming shouldn't have hurt its action. It is supposed to keep any shells from coming out of the bottom when the bolt is closed though. Check to make sure it still has a spring pushing it out to hit the shells rim. The action slide also works the carrier, and allows it to fall when the bolt is going back, and pushes it up, when the bolt is forward. If it was bent, it may not come down low enough to allow a shell to slide easily onto it. Edit added: I took a look, and the left cart. stop works off a cam track in the operating rod that goes to the forearm. When you brazed this back, it may have got this off, and when the bolt is locked forward, it may not be releasing the LH cart. stop, so you have shells not staying in the magazine. The RH cart. stop, the one on the ejection side, is used to keep the shells from double loading onto the carrier. Another thing to check is when the bolt is starting to go back, and the carrier starts to go down, the LH cart. stop supposed to open, and let a shell out to hit the front of the carrier, which holds it in until it drops all the way, so the shell can go back on it. Here, the RH cart. stop keeps the shell behind that one from following it out. Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; March 25, 2014 at 04:06 PM.

March 21, 2014, 12:28 AM	#1
Alec151 Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2014 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 4	J.C. Higgins 20 12ga. Problem Hi all. This is my very first post, so sorry about any faux pas. Anyway, I fancy myself an amateur tinkerer, and so when my very first gun, an old J.C. Higgins 12ga pump shotgun, broke, I just couldn't throw it out. I've been staring at it for over a year and still haven't had any success, and I'm calling in backup. I was shooting some pretty ancient paper hull birdshot when the operating arm sheared clear off at the forearm, throw the bolt back, and peppered a barn on my right with shattered shell brass. No one was hurt, but it got put away real quick, and the ammo is long gone. Anyway, I managed to get the operating arm brazed back in, and its pretty well aligned. No other part appears damaged or misaligned at all, and the action now operates pretty well, but the shell carrier simply won't drop far enough down to pick up the next shell and keeps blocking it on its way out of the mag. It does, however, swing up and in properly. I have pictures and a schematic to post as well if desired. I'm hoping anyone with any pump-action experience can give me a hand getting this thing off my bench and back into the safe.

March 21, 2014, 07:34 AM	#2
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	First, I take it you mean that when you shot the gun, the bolt flew back on its own, and some of the shell exploded out of the side of the gun, through the ejection port? If it did, that sounds like the action slide release didn't lock the forearm/action bar forward, and allowed everything to come back when it was fired. I'm pretty sure this is the same gun as a Hi-Standard Flite King shotgun, and has a bolt similar to a 31 Remington in it. Actually, the action is close to a 31, too, but not exact. Anyhow, it may be possible, when under firing pressure, that if the action slide release is not blocking the slide bar, that the bolt could come unlocked, and everything fly back. Numrich has the entire action slide release assembly, (the button you push to release the forearm), and I would replace it as one unit if its what's bad.

March 21, 2014, 11:23 AM	#3
Alec151 Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2014 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 4	Dixie, That's exactly what happened. But even so, I am pretty confident that the action was properly locked, and it locks smooth and strong now. And I know Numrich's, they sell an incredible variety of hard-to-find parts. Problem is, I'm on a budget and I'm not even sure what part is disformed. It all looks ok, and it would be more convenient just to buy a new gun than swap out the entire action. Besides, where's the fun in that?! I will say, I put a small bead of solder on what Numrich's tells me is the carrier operating cam. Cycled perfectly with a full range of motion until the solder failed.

March 25, 2014, 12:57 PM	#5
Alec151 Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2014 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 4	Dixie, Sorry for the delay, class got tough there for a few. But everything you're saying sounds exactly right to this shotgun, and the action slide looks almost exactly the same. I haven't looked (or noticed) the action lock teat you've mentioned, but I'll take a closer look. Also, the forearm spring seems well enough expanded to be operating properly. However, the real problem, as you mentioned, is in the wrap-around shell carrier. It doesn't fully drop to catch the shell out of the magazine, and I suspect that this is indicative of some other issue. This all began right after the action lock failed. In what I consider to be unrelated, one of the two cartridge catches (which hold the shell in the tube until the carrier drops) has failed, and when I shoot it (still fires fine) or rack it firmly, one or more shells often pop right out. This also began around the failure. I think they're mechanically unrelated, but can't be certain. I've got all the parts disassembled (except the trigger group) and I'll bring everything upstairs to get some good pictures of the parts and post the schematic. Anything is particular I can take a shot of?

April 1, 2014, 08:24 PM	#8
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Alec151, When that all came back, from what it did, it could have displaced metal in several places, but mainly cam surfaces which act with the action slide or the action slide rod (from the forearm), since they hit these surfaces they act on hard when both went back. You would really need to look at the surface of the carrier arm, that rides against that cam, to see if it looks like its wore down, or if it was the carrier cam wore, as either could cause it to not drop quite far enough. However, the cam on the action slide, being smaller, would be the one to ware the fastest. Another thing to look at, is when the carrier is moving down, at a certain spot, the LH shell latch should release a shell, and the the rear of the shell should be stopped from coming out by the front of the carrier. Then when the carrier is all the way down, and the bolt back, it should be low enough to clear the rear of the shell, and allow it to be pushed out onto the top of the carrier, in which the RH shell latch should be raised up, and blocking the shell that was behind it from coming out also. This is the sequence that it should have, if you still have problems with the shells. If you were to repair the cam on the action slide, it would be best to get a spot of weld put on it with TIG, and then reshaped, as solder, and even brass from brazing, will ware, but brass would be in between on the toughness. The only other fix might be swell the metal of the cam face backwards with a center punch, and then fit it. You might be able to hold it in a vise, and strike the metal with the center punch and a hammer a couple of places, right in front of the cam surface at maybe 1/16" ahead of it, to get it to swell out rearwards. My guess, though, is that it was hardened, and it may not be easy to do.