Thoughts about shotguns for boat defense

[jlayman920]

Nothing says "stay away pirates" like a 50 cal mounted on the fore deck. Of course your boat may tend to sail a little funny and the recoil from a long burst may put her on her side.

[Death from Afar]

As an aside, international law is not on the side of pirates- quite the opposite. All states and persons may take actions against individuals or vessels involved in acts of piracy. The rationale is that those commiting acts of piracy have "rendered themselves enemies of all mankind" (hostis humani genreis) and do not have flag protection ( this is why pirates flew the jolly roger, they did not have the protection of any state. ON the high seas, therefore, any person may take action against pirates without legal consequence. Of course, when you enter a nation states territorial waters, you are subject to local law, which may make your .5 on the prow illegal.

Warships have "law of flag" immunity from local law regarding firearms and are not subject to local law.

So now you know.

[Ruthless4christ]

but does that law apply to civilians? I mean I don't think my carrying a shotgun on my sailboat qualifies me as being on a warship

[indy245]

Our flare pistols at work are Four gauge and have a twelve gauge insert. They are made in Germany, single shot, steel and are strong enough to handle 4 (1") gauge flares. I'm sure light shot loads would work in them.....Disclaimer: I'm not going to try nor am I suggesting that anyone should try.

Could you build a twelve gauge pistol that would be mistaken or presumed as a flare gun or purchase one that would be strong enough?

It would still be single shot but would not be under the scrutiny of people inspecting your boat, I believe that some of the older wartime ones where doubles?

Friends that boated around the world do have a tiny bit of discussion about Piracy as I believe they where followed by another boat, I looked but couldn't find the exact journal entry:

http://idlewildexpedition.ca/
(They started their journey boating from inland Alberta on a river with the same boat they took around the world.)


Indy.

[Ruthless4christ]

this is actually a pretty cool thread so I am gonna go ahead and say this. Discussing the legality of carrying firearms in international waters is fine, however suggesting ways of hiding illigel weapons from the police is just not what we do here. There is plenty of normal situations to go over here, and I don't think many of us will ever sail off the horn of Africa so we need not even consider the need of heavy weapons. Here in Guatemala for instance An american was killed aboard his boat near beliz by mechete totin bandits. I think that's the kindo of thing we are talking about here, so it may be a very good new start for this conversation should people care to follow along

[Death from Afar]

but does that law apply to civilians? I mean I don't think my carrying a shotgun on my sailboat qualifies me as being on a warship

Good question. ON the high seas (beyond a nation states declared waters) , there is no local law, and you are beyond anyones jurisdiction. That is why there are special rules for pirates on the high seas, such as a warship may engage them on the high seas, or in the case of , say, fishing violations in national waters, can board the offending vessel after a "hot pursuit". The second you enter a nations territorial waters you are subject to that flag states law, save in the case of peaceful transit through a sealane. The moral of the story is, if you are in mexican territorial waters, you are subject to mexican law. Which is a problem if you have a firearm.

[dakotashooter2]

I acquired 6 of these. A flare shot into any type of open or light vessel would ruin the BGs day.

I think the flare gun option is really underestimated. I'm not sure what the range of the average flare is but it must be 100 yards or so. I'm assuming the average pirate probably doesn't run the tidyest ship with spilled fuel and debris on the deck. A barrage of hot flares would likely light something up, in addition to making others aware of your distress. Better than nothing at all.

You could pretend you are a whaler and mount a few harpoon guns. A mi ti cocktail also might have some effect.

[armsmaster270]

Besides a shotgun and my carry weapon that I carry on my cruiser I have an all steel german 26.5mm flare pistol and a 12GA insert for it you can use the mini 12 ga shells in it they are only about 1 1/2" long. I have fired the flares in the river here & was suprised at the range they had. I might mention I had C.G. approval to use the flares.

[eaglesnester]

For the most part a shotgun is a last ditch weapon, they are already aboard and you have probably lost. The pirates these days are using 50 cal, 20 or 30mm, or RPG and bigger. You do not stand a chance unless you are carring a heavy crew served weapon and know how to deploy and use it. You better be better armed or your ship had better be whole lot faster or figuaboutit. They will board you, kill you immediately throw your body overboard and take your vessel, or they may kidnap you and hold you for ransom if you are lucky. The easy answer is stay away from those waters. The world is a very big and dangerous place
Glenn HM1 DV FMF USN Retired

[troy_mclure]

i rode from Seattle to the GOM with a buddy in his 29' sea-ray.
he had an 870 mariner on board and had no problems in any us ports except San Fran. as long as you declare it in your manifest its kosher.

he frequently travels thru the Caribbean all the time, the cayman islands are big anti gun, they dont even want you porting if you have one in your manifest.

there are a few pirates thru the Caribbean as well, they dont use ak's and rpg's like the Somalis/Indonesians. a shot gun would be fine to hold them off.

[onthejon55]

Checkout the Mossberg JIC series. I know a gun store owner with a house boat on KY, Lake and thats what he takes. Best part about em is that they are corrosion resistant even in salt water.

heres a link:
http://www.mossberg.com/products/def...8&display=desc

[johnwilliamson062]

on open water I would guess you really have two scenarios.
1. you see them coming, in shich case I would want to deter them at as long a range as possible.
2. they sneak up at night. I know a few have come on deck with guns and promptly been shot in this scenario.

I would go with the SKS or stainless mini depending on your budget with a glock sidearm. At the range where the shotgun would be most effective I think you are pretty much done. IDK, if you can get all three. I would want the rifle most as it is what may allow you to avoif them closing with you in the first place.

THis isn't like a lanf robbery where they are likely unarmed or poorly armed. If the shooting gets going it is going to get ugly.

Did i ever

[Ricklin]

SKS in the rack on the overhead in the galley, my trusty G19 close at hand.

Most guys I know have gone to the SKS for a 'boat gun' The nickle plate does sound like a good idea.

Pirates? We are the pirates! At least that is what the OSP and the CG think of us:barf:

It's tough enough to make a living fishing, when you are treated like criminals by the authorites, it's that much tougher.