New Federal law re: ammo sales?

[15plus1]

Hi all,

Was at Walmart the other night and stopped by sporting goods to pick up a box of 9mm and I got carded for ID.

This is not unusual and it's not an issue as I always have my wallet and ID. However, the clerk stated that he had to ID me because of a new federal law that went into effect and handed me a Wallyworld info sheet that I really didn't read.

I replied that I thought age verification for ammo had always been the law, 18 for rifle/21 for handgun, as I have been carded for ammo many times (I look fairly young and have blue hair, I get it) and was told that, no, it was a law that just went into effect the previous day.

So, while I don't expect much legal knowledge from my local Wal-Mart clerks, is this more than likely a corporate crackdown on IDing that he was confused or misinformed about?

[Fla_dogman]

I think they're prompted by the register, they do the same for alcohol

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[15plus1]

I think they're prompted by the register, they do the same for alcohol

Exactly, and to my knowledge that had always been the case.

[Doyle]

Just another Wallyworld employee who knows nothing about the actual law.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by 15plus1

...the clerk stated that he had to ID me because of a new federal law that went into effect...

That's bullhockey.

Federal law on the topic is summarized in the post linked below. Note that the post is from 2011. The law has not changed since then.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...23&postcount=4

18 USC § 922(b) makes it unlawful for an FFL to "to sell or deliver... ammunition [if the firearm is other than] a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age..." 18 USC § 922(x) makes it unlawful for any person to "sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile [under 18 years old]... ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun."

However, NEITHER section imposes a positive and unequivocal requirement to actually check the buyer's ID—it only prohibits the sale IF the seller "knows or has reasonable cause to believe" that the buyer is underage. Employees at dedicated gun stores understand this subtlety, hence most of them generally don't card anyone unless they obviously appear underage.

Originally Posted by 15plus1

So, while I don't expect much legal knowledge from my local Wal-Mart clerks, is this more than likely a corporate crackdown on IDing that he was confused or misinformed about?

Yes. [EDIT TO ADD: It's also possible that the new policy is a reaction to state law and the clerk is too ignorant to realize the difference. Your profile doesn't reveal your location.]

Originally Posted by Doyle

Just another Wallyworld employee who knows nothing about the actual law.

Yup.

[mr bolo]

there are reports from California WALMARTS of customers having the info scanned on their Driver's License to purchase ammo

they use to ask to see ID to verify age, now they are scanning to keep records of who buys the ammo, to get your personal info, name , current address, DL number.

but people in CA only have until Dec 31 to purchase ammo before the NEW law takes effect requiring registration / background checks to buy ammo in 2018

[steveno]

the last couple of times I bought ammo at Cabela's they asked for my birth date but never verified it by looking at my drivers license. I also think there is a way around it at the register because a couple of other times in the same time frame the clerk never asked.

[Aguila Blanca]

Considering that the clerk hand you a paper explaining the alleged new law, it would have been informative to read the paper, and then we could discuss whether or not the information behind Wal-Mart's policy is correct. Since the clerk gave you an explanation that you didn't read, what is there to discuss?

[carguychris]

^^^^ Excellent point AB.

Additionally, until the OP reveals the state where he or she is located, IMHO commentary on various state laws and/or buying experiences in other stores is immaterial. I've already answered the OP's question with regards to federal law.

[15plus1]

Since the clerk gave you an explanation that you didn't read

Definitely got me there, though it looked more like an internal memo than anything from a government body.

I was not overly concerned at the time, as I am accustomed to be asked for ID and had no issue presenting it.

Just seemed strange after having a day or two to process the conversation, given that I had heard nothing of new regulations concerning ammo sales.

what is there to discuss?

I was curious as to whether or not there was any new regulations regarding proof of age than were already supposedly being enforced, or if this was more likely to be one store's attempt to put their staff on notice for being lax on IDing customers.

State is Ohio, sorry, though it was in my description

[rickyrick]

Clerks will say anything to get the encounter to end quickly and easily.

Most likely the clerk or manager has been razzed several hundred times by the "it's Mah Right!" Crowd.

The easiest way to get people over it is to claim "Federal Law" or "OSHA" says so. No one is going to check in many cases.

It's human nature.

Clerks get harassed constantly by customers, they learn techniques as a human defense mechanism.
Gun people are the worst for bullying clerks.

I am disappointed that some of you assume clerks aren't smart enough to comprehend. Walmart could be their second job, retired or disabled; could even be a student of higher learning.
The clerk is most likely just following directions, repeating what they were told.

Have a heart, be an ambassador for gun owners. Walmart clerks make up millions, most of them are smart and good people. Most of them are our families, some are forum members.

[mr bolo]

I always use my smart phone to take a photo of important papers / info

then you can have a copy when you get home for your records

[15plus1]

Clerks will say anything to get the encounter to end quickly and easily.

Most likely the clerk or manager has been razzed several hundred times by the "it's Mah Right!" Crowd.

Being in customer service, I get it. "I'm sorry, it's policy" is a standby line.

Again, just thought it was strange that he stated that it was a "new" law when I was agreeing with him that he was within his rights to ID me.

Anyways, it seems my question has been answered. I was unsure if there was something new that I had not heard of (though I was not aware of the California regulation).

Thanks folks

[FITASC]

Wally World clerk takes one look at me and realizes I am older than he is (and he's retired) and never asks a thing.............Sometimes it's easier when you're an old fart!

[gunrunner1]

Recently, my Wal-Mart also starting checking age with a drivers license. Clerk said it was a new Wal-Mart policy.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Wally World clerk takes one look at me and realizes I am older than he is (and he's retired) and never asks a thing....

It's the same for me. But the register still goes "Ding" when he/she gets to the point where he/she has to verify age, and he/she still has to push that key before the transaction can proceed.

[jmr40]

When items ring up that are age restricted the cash register prompts the clerk to verify your age before the register will let them continue. There has been a law for years that you must be 21 to purchase handgun ammo and 18 to purchase long gun ammo. It comes down to the individual clerk and management. Some places just look at you and if it is obvious that you are legal they press the button saying they have verified you age. If you're borderline looking they will ask for ID. The management in some stores insist they actually look at ID for everyone even if it is clear you are old enough.

It isn't just ammo, but alcohol, paint, certain chemicals and medicines, even certain types of batteries which are used to make meth.

[dakota.potts]

You wouldn't believe all the new laws that apparently get passed without anybody else's knowledge

Heard it all the time as a sales person at a big box retail store. New laws about ammo and assault weapons bans and registration and everything else that was suddenly passed in the dark of night.

I wouldn't pay it too much mind.

[Snyper]

The register prompts them to check your ID, and they are typically being videotaped the entire time.

Just do like they ask, and don't ask them lots of pointless questions that will only prolong the process.

[ballardw]

I used to get the question "is this for a rifle or pistol" at Walmart when buying ammo. They got terribly confused when I said "since I'm over 21 it doesn't matter" (as in Viet Nam era veteran old). Then the local store quit allowing any sales except at the sporting goods register. Apparently, at least at my local store, they get a little bit more information so haven't had the rifle/pistol question for awhile.

[rebs]

At our local wally world if you buy hand gun ammo they ask to see your permit and if that caliber gun is not listed on it they won't sell you the ammo. I explained the ammo was for a 9mm carbine but he still would not sell it to me. Another wally world about 9 miles from there will sell you any ammo you want and don't ask for anything ID or hand gun permit.

[JoeSixpack]

Im pretty sure the ID check has been walmart policy for some great many years. (like 10+)

Although on occasion I've had them not ID me and they just use their own, I do think the items are flagged like alcohol and require a ID to complete the sale though, they always ask is this for a rifle or a handgun which does elude to the federal law on selling ammo to the underage.

On the other hand I've not bought ammo at walmart in about 3 years.. their prices are just no longer competitive and I've not seen 22lr on their shelf since many years long than that... I refuse to stake out the trucks when I can get it for the same price or cheaper online.

[Tinbucket]

I can add nothing abut the Law.
However, it sucks.
As a child and teenager I bought lots of ammo.
No way restricting ammo to adults accomplishes anything.
It is a form of persecution pure and simple.
The anti gunners display of hate.
California and Gov Moonbat or Moonbeam are headed Venezuela on our dime.
I haven't heard anything from President Trump.
I thought he was going to change things big time about our 2A Rights, for the better. I hope he doesn't deal them away.
It would be nice if every Firearms Owner and supporter of our Constitution. bombarded the White House to come to the aid of the Republic and our Rights.
There are a lot of us and apparently we are all lazy, including me.
White house .Gov doesn't seem to work no ping that emails arrive nor any replies.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by rebs

At our local wally world if you buy hand gun ammo they ask to see your permit and if that caliber gun is not listed on it they won't sell you the ammo. I explained the ammo was for a 9mm carbine but he still would not sell it to me.

I assume you're under 21.

You're correct in understanding that the under-21 restriction on handgun ammunition—18 USC § 922(b)—is tied to the type of firearm the ammo will be used in, rather than whether it's generally considered to be a handgun cartridge.

However, this is precisely the type of subtlety that I wouldn't expect a big-box store clerk to understand. They simply follow the prompts on the screen.

[rebs]

I am 70