Anyone have a bersa thunder and Walther ppk?

defjon · May 27, 2020, 06:15 PM

Hey,

Anyone have both of these?

I know the ppk has a significantly smaller recoil spring and was curious why. These are similarly sized pistols.

The bersa Thunder has a spring maybe twice as long!

They both ran 100%

Forte S+W · May 27, 2020, 07:53 PM

It's because the Walther PPK's recoil spring is heavier, which makes the slide harder to rack. Bersa uses a lighter recoil spring with more coils in order to insure safe/reliable function wirh an easier to rack slide. However, this also makes the Bersa Thunder 380 a bit harder to strip/reassemble because you have to go a bit slower to insure that the longer recoil spring is properly aligned with the barrel so that it will compress over it.

You see, both pistols are Straight Blowback, fixed barrel operated pistols which use the combined mass/weight of the slide and recoil spring to hold the action closed until chamber pressures drop to safe levels.
The Walther PPK is an older design which dates back to the 1930s, whereas the Bersa Thunder 380 is a derivative design which combines elements of both the original PPK and the more modern SIG P232 in attempt to address some of the design shortcomings of the PPK, with the longer, lighter recoil spring being an attempt to address the issue that while the PPK is popular, it has a prohibitively heavy recoil spring for many shooters, at least in the .380 ACP chambering.

defjon · May 28, 2020, 04:19 PM

That makes sense that the spring is thicker. Thanks for taking the time to respond and explain!

stinkeypete · May 28, 2020, 04:52 PM

I have owned both as well! Both are good, the Bersa had a better trigger, better sights, and better accuracy, easier to rack the slide. To me, the Bersa is simply the better pistol.

Regretting that I sold them long ago, when I saw a brand new Bersa Thunder on sale for under $300 I bought it without thought, repairing one of those gun sales I regretted.

Some guns are “good for the money”- the Bersa is “surprisingly good pistol for a crazy low price.”

*when I say “accurate” I mean the Bersa can keep them all in the scoring ring of an nra bullseye target at 50’ or 25 yards but just barely. Not at all bad for a (very) large pocket pistol.

I must admit I am still puzzling on why it won’t drive tacks, my range just re-opened and it will be a summer project! As a blowback gun, I wonder why it won’t group like a semi auto .22.

Ibmikey · June 1, 2020, 02:34 AM

My Bersa has never fired a full mag without a failure, my first year PPK has been popping out 7.65 brass for the better part of 90 years.

Trooper Joe · June 1, 2020, 06:01 AM

I have had three Bersa’s and would not mind buying another one. However, all of mine had serious problems with the slide hold open system.

The metal in the slide is just too soft and rapidly wears (try two mags on a new gun) causing the gun to fail to hold open when empty as they should.

It is an absolute joke reading the reasons why this happens. These reasons range from “The guns were designed this way (really)”, to “I am not operating the gun properly”.

I agree that they are low cost, however, I have in my collection about 6 Walther PP and PPKs, 4 Sig 230 and 232s, a number of FEGs (including an absolutely gorgeous SMC .380 with an alloy frame that I only paid $250 for) and even a second generation Sccy that has never malfunctioned. My last attempt to make a Bersa work (a Bersa Thunder CC) cost me $300 initial purchase, two trips back into for repair (costs on my dime) for a total of over $400. My last used Sig 230 SL, cost me less than that. Most of my Walthers and Sigs cost me about $400 each (if you look hard enough).

I can not use a Bersa at a Police range since the hold open system never works as required when the range is “Cold” (slide locked back and magazine out).

Sorry about the rant, but it is hard to keep quite when someone starts to praise a Bersa.

Just some thoughts,

Trooper Joe

defjon · June 2, 2020, 04:31 PM

Hmm. That is odd.

My first pistol was a bersa duo tone 380, back in 2004 or 2005.

I shot it a ton, 380 was under 7 dollars a box.

It would always lock back on empty.

It did start to release for slide when a fresh mag was inserted. Odd.

I have a nickel 380 now probably 200 rounds, no issues with slide locking back yet.

I think I read that one of the south American militarys issue the bersa Thunder. USUALLY that means the design is probably decently robust.

defjon · June 2, 2020, 04:38 PM

I've had a blued interarms ppk/s
2 sw ppk/s
A stainless interarms ppk/s in 32

Currently own a brand new fort Smith ppk.

The 32 interarms ppks was by far the best. Never jammed. Soft recoil. Amazing for point shooting.

My only ppk, the fort Smith.. Has functioned 100%. Six round mags. Lots of recoil. But it feeds any flat nose or jhp you can stuff in the mags.

I am hanging onto it. If I can learn to shoot this little ppk well I think I'll improve across platforms.

Prof Young · June 2, 2020, 05:17 PM

I've owned both, but not at the same time. Both ran FAIRLY well. Both had to go back to shop. I really liked the Bersa, but even after repair, the slide would not always stay locked back and it still jammed too much for a carry gun. Walter jammed a bit too.

Ah well . . .

Life is good.
Prof Young

Trooper Joe · June 2, 2020, 05:31 PM

This FEG SMC .380 cost me $250 several years ago. It has an alloy frame and now sports a flat left side grip. Very accurate and smooth shooter.

Oh yes, it holds open on the last shot.

Trooper Joe

jaughtman · June 5, 2020, 03:18 PM

Quote:

I've had a blued interarms ppk/s
2 sw ppk/s
A stainless interarms ppk/s in 32

Currently own a brand new fort Smith ppk.

The 32 interarms ppks was by far the best. Never jammed. Soft recoil. Amazing for point shooting.

Me too! I have an Interarms PPK (380) that is one of the only pistols I own that has NEVER jammed. More accurate than a pocket pistol should be. But you get people that look down on the Interarms ones from time to time....

Jaughtman

defjon · June 7, 2020, 12:03 PM

My local shop has a stainless interarms 380 ppk/s

I'm a bit tempted!

Prefer the looks of the short beaver tail. It provides enough protection if the shooter keeps their thumb down

May 27, 2020, 06:15 PM	#1
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	Anyone have a bersa thunder and Walther ppk? Hey, Anyone have both of these? I know the ppk has a significantly smaller recoil spring and was curious why. These are similarly sized pistols. The bersa Thunder has a spring maybe twice as long! They both ran 100%

May 27, 2020, 07:53 PM	#2
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	It's because the Walther PPK's recoil spring is heavier, which makes the slide harder to rack. Bersa uses a lighter recoil spring with more coils in order to insure safe/reliable function wirh an easier to rack slide. However, this also makes the Bersa Thunder 380 a bit harder to strip/reassemble because you have to go a bit slower to insure that the longer recoil spring is properly aligned with the barrel so that it will compress over it. You see, both pistols are Straight Blowback, fixed barrel operated pistols which use the combined mass/weight of the slide and recoil spring to hold the action closed until chamber pressures drop to safe levels. The Walther PPK is an older design which dates back to the 1930s, whereas the Bersa Thunder 380 is a derivative design which combines elements of both the original PPK and the more modern SIG P232 in attempt to address some of the design shortcomings of the PPK, with the longer, lighter recoil spring being an attempt to address the issue that while the PPK is popular, it has a prohibitively heavy recoil spring for many shooters, at least in the .380 ACP chambering. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

May 28, 2020, 04:52 PM	#4
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	I have owned both as well! Both are good, the Bersa had a better trigger, better sights, and better accuracy, easier to rack the slide. To me, the Bersa is simply the better pistol. Regretting that I sold them long ago, when I saw a brand new Bersa Thunder on sale for under $300 I bought it without thought, repairing one of those gun sales I regretted. Some guns are “good for the money”- the Bersa is “surprisingly good pistol for a crazy low price.” when I say “accurate” I mean the Bersa can keep them all in the scoring ring of an nra bullseye target at 50’ or 25 yards but just barely. Not at all bad for a (very) large pocket pistol. I must admit I am still puzzling on why it won’t drive tacks, my range just re-opened and it will be a summer project! As a blowback gun, I wonder why it won’t group like a semi auto .22. Last edited by stinkeypete; May 28, 2020 at 04:58 PM.*

June 2, 2020, 05:17 PM	#9
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	I USED to own both but . . . I've owned both, but not at the same time. Both ran FAIRLY well. Both had to go back to shop. I really liked the Bersa, but even after repair, the slide would not always stay locked back and it still jammed too much for a carry gun. Walter jammed a bit too. Ah well . . . Life is good. Prof Young

May 28, 2020, 04:19 PM	#3
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	That makes sense that the spring is thicker. Thanks for taking the time to respond and explain!

June 1, 2020, 02:34 AM	#5
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	My Bersa has never fired a full mag without a failure, my first year PPK has been popping out 7.65 brass for the better part of 90 years.

June 1, 2020, 06:01 AM	#6
Trooper Joe Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 225	I have had three Bersa’s and would not mind buying another one. However, all of mine had serious problems with the slide hold open system. The metal in the slide is just too soft and rapidly wears (try two mags on a new gun) causing the gun to fail to hold open when empty as they should. It is an absolute joke reading the reasons why this happens. These reasons range from “The guns were designed this way (really)”, to “I am not operating the gun properly”. I agree that they are low cost, however, I have in my collection about 6 Walther PP and PPKs, 4 Sig 230 and 232s, a number of FEGs (including an absolutely gorgeous SMC .380 with an alloy frame that I only paid $250 for) and even a second generation Sccy that has never malfunctioned. My last attempt to make a Bersa work (a Bersa Thunder CC) cost me $300 initial purchase, two trips back into for repair (costs on my dime) for a total of over $400. My last used Sig 230 SL, cost me less than that. Most of my Walthers and Sigs cost me about $400 each (if you look hard enough). I can not use a Bersa at a Police range since the hold open system never works as required when the range is “Cold” (slide locked back and magazine out). Sorry about the rant, but it is hard to keep quite when someone starts to praise a Bersa. Just some thoughts, Trooper Joe

June 2, 2020, 04:31 PM	#7
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	Hmm. That is odd. My first pistol was a bersa duo tone 380, back in 2004 or 2005. I shot it a ton, 380 was under 7 dollars a box. It would always lock back on empty. It did start to release for slide when a fresh mag was inserted. Odd. I have a nickel 380 now probably 200 rounds, no issues with slide locking back yet. I think I read that one of the south American militarys issue the bersa Thunder. USUALLY that means the design is probably decently robust.

June 2, 2020, 04:38 PM	#8
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	I've had a blued interarms ppk/s 2 sw ppk/s A stainless interarms ppk/s in 32 Currently own a brand new fort Smith ppk. The 32 interarms ppks was by far the best. Never jammed. Soft recoil. Amazing for point shooting. My only ppk, the fort Smith.. Has functioned 100%. Six round mags. Lots of recoil. But it feeds any flat nose or jhp you can stuff in the mags. I am hanging onto it. If I can learn to shoot this little ppk well I think I'll improve across platforms.

June 2, 2020, 05:31 PM	#10
Trooper Joe Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 225	This FEG SMC .380 cost me $250 several years ago. It has an alloy frame and now sports a flat left side grip. Very accurate and smooth shooter. Oh yes, it holds open on the last shot. Trooper Joe

June 7, 2020, 12:03 PM	#12
defjon Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2005 Posts: 785	My local shop has a stainless interarms 380 ppk/s I'm a bit tempted! Prefer the looks of the short beaver tail. It provides enough protection if the shooter keeps their thumb down