Martini-Henry

[Dre_sa]

Hey folks,

I recently decided to undertake a new project in the form of a Martini-Henry.

Bought form IMA, took a whole lot of cleaning but it is in phenomenal shape. the rifling is crisp, the bore isn't exactly glowing, but it's clean, the stocks are beat to hell.

Only minor pitting below the wood line.

And the smell reminds me of the first surplus store I ever walked into.

All the research and measurements I've done suggest this could be a good shooter.

I know and understand that this rifle was made before headspace was really a thing, but I looked it up to be sure and bought a feeler gauge, and he checks out as well within spec.

I slugged the barrel three times to be sure, and each time, the slug measures out to .467 This is using the method of rotating the slug within the jaws of calipers to find the greatest measurement.
Since the Henry pattern rifling has an odd number of lands & grooves, measuring from the 'flat' on one side of the slug to the 'point' on the other reads .460

I've done homework and have formed some conclusions, I would like to discuss with you folks here, particularly those with martini experience to see if my conclusions are correct.

From my understanding of the information I have collected, if I were to use a non paper-patched projectile for this rifle, I would be looking at a bullet diameter of .469 Given the tapering bore of the martini, this should swage down and bite the rifling properly. This is using the measurement of .467 gained from rotating the slug in the calipers/micrometer.

Am I using the wrong measurement? should I be looking into a .460 diameter bullet?

Any other considerations I should take into account?

Thanks all for any help you may be able to offer, I'd love to get the old boy talking again, in a big booming voice. Perhaps channel the ghost of Alan Quartermaine.

[springer99]

congratulations and welcome to the world of British Empire guns. Nice looking Mk IV long lever you have there. For the best information on getting that old girl back into fighting trim, I'd suggest you ask away at this forum.

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.c...y#.Vtl7IpX2ZaR

You'll find all the help you need in getting your MH restored and sources for brass, bullets, etc.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Assuming the chamber is 450-577 ???

I have several of these rifles, but none in stock form ( I should really fix that )

mine run from 30-30, 45-70, & 50-70, & I have a pristine action I'm building a new one right now, with a 375 barrel... leaning to 38-56 for a caliber, but also thinking 375 JDJ

I was going to make a 577 Snider, but chamber dimensions & loading die dimension often vary so much, the brass wouldn't last long ( you may run into that with the 450 also ) just in case you were planning on shooting it a bunch... I still have the Lee 577 dies... I could have a reamer built to match the dies, but good 577 barrels are rare & expensive...

it might be worth doing a chamber cast, to see how much your chamber would vary from the loading dies...

[kilimanjaro]

Looks like you could fight Abu Klea with that one, looks pretty nice.

It's just me, but I would not use the .469 bullet, you'll get leading and excessive recoil, on a 130-year old rifle. That is not a good concept due to parts wear and stressing, in my opinion.

I shoot mine with the smaller paper-patched bullets, and I can tell you it will still ring the gong at 400 yards just like Tommy Atkins had to do back in 1888.

I do load mine a bit light, just to avoid overstressing the old girl.

The Lee dies for the Martini-Henry are the best deal on the planet, I paired mine with two dedicated Classic Loaders, so I don't have to reset the dies up when making a few cartridges. The dies are well-made, nicely finished, and work smoothly, at least the set I bought, anyway.

I've been using the same 20 pieces of brass I bought in 1988, seems to last a long time, but as I mentioned I do run it a bit light.

Look to your front, and mark your target when it comes.

[T. O'Heir]

"...450-577???..." That'd be .577-450. Originally used a .455", 480 grain, cast, paper patched bullet with 85 grains of BP at approximately 1,350 fps. Bore diameters vary so .463" to .468" bullets are needed. You need a .468" bullet. Buffalo Arms makes a 2 bullet .469" mould you could use, then swage 'em the 1 thou. Or just use 'em as is(1 thou will not hurt anything.). Temporarily unavailable, of course.
Brass and ammo is horrendously expensive stuff. Buffalo Arms wants $156.10 per 20 for ammo loaded with a .460" bullet using Bertram brass(that runs $132.00 per 20.).
I have a .pdf how-to for making a reloadable 70 grain capacity brass case out of 3/4" brass bar stock if you want it.
Oh and there were an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 Zulus at Rorke's Drift. You'll be needing a bayonet. snicker.

[Mike Irwin]

I seem to recall reading that people have had success in making .577-.450 brass using 24 gauge brass shotshells...

The shells, at least, are available rather cheaply from Midway. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/195...rass-box-of-25


Ah... Here's the article I read on making .577 brass with the 24 gauge shell.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Shotgun-Cases

[Dre_sa]

T. O'heir,

so am I correct in the assumption that a .469 bullet will swage safely in the bore?

Just for clarification

[Mike Irwin]

Ideally your cast bullets will be just a hair over bore diameter, so yes, .001 is absolutely nothing.

Out of my .357 Magnum/.38 Special I shoot. .359 to .360 bullets all the time.

[kilimanjaro]

Do get the correct bayonet, you have the Mk 2, with ramp front sight and long lever. Many of the bayonets being sold are for the Mk 1, which has the squared-off front sight.

In the event of imminent attack by Zulus or Fuzzy-Wuzzies, you could square off the sight as a field expediency.

[Tidewater_Kid]

Go to here:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/16005

Martyn is a great guy. You can get formed 24ga cases for the Martini Henry.

TK

[Mike Irwin]

$47.50 per box of 25? (edit: My bad, I said 50 originally, but it is still a bargain!)

Hell, that's a bargain!

Bertram's 577-450 brass at Graf and Son is $127 a box of 20...

At Midway the same brass is $144 a box of 20.


I'd love to have either a Martini-Henry or a Snider conversion, but I've never found one at a good price at a time I could realistically spend the money for it.

[Tidewater_Kid]

I have personally used his formed cases and they are excellent. Both Snider and Martini-Henry.

TK

[Dre_sa]

ok, so I took the old chap out to the range today.

I made a video

Audio is a little off because guns are loud and the camera auto-sets levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igBkf7X7iEo

I measured everything six times over and pulled the trigger with confidence.

I'm a very happy lad

[Mike Irwin]

Oh god, now I want one!

Nice to see that you remembered to move your thumb!

[Dre_sa]

I can't remember the last time I had so much fun on a project. I kinda want another myself, just to do it all again!

I do that with all my rifles, my thumb sits in the same spot on each to better position the finger on the trigger. I use that as a muscle memory / indexing kinda thing.Picked that up when I shot competitively in highschool.

[Dre_sa]

Since this rifle is supposed to be a learning project, and since the accuracy was terrible, I decided to redo the crown on my martini.

Here's before and after pics...

[Mike Irwin]

OK, when you say accuracy was terrible, can you give us some particulars?

What kind of bullet and lube did you use?

Were the bullets keyholing on the target or just spread out everywhere?

[Dre_sa]

I bought ammo from buffalo arms co, 480gr over 85gr BP.
Bullet diameter is .469 my barrel slugs at .467

they were landing high and left but a group roughly 2 feet wide. no keyholing, just all over the place.

In the pic, I was aiming at the lower right target to get the rounds on paper. 10 rounds fired, 3 hit paper.

big holes in the berm though,

[darkgael]

I have a long lever Martini. I use brass made from 24 gauge brass. I have Bertram brass. I have Kynoch brass - yes, you can order it from them. I bought it some years ago and do not know what it costs now.
I paper patch soft lead bullets that I swage from lead wire....to .468.
The simplest load for the gun that I use is .45 Colt brass fired through a chamber adapter. I use Lee REAL muzzleloader bullets seated part way into the case. These bullets have an oversized driving band which allows satisfactory engraving on the Henry rifling.
The .469 bullets should work just fine. Have you slugged the bore?
What load do you use?
Mine are 480 grain PP bullets over 85 grains of FFg. To take up the space, I use either Pufflon or Kapok fiber and put a fiber wad atop that.
Using the chamber adapter at 50 yards - five shots:

[chiefr]

I own several and shoot them often.
I stick with black powder, grease cookies, and wads.
24 gage brass is what I use and annealing, lots of size lube and a couple of intermediary size dies are your friend.
I trim first and use 577 Snider die to start the sizing process.