Winchester 1895’ no reproductions?

[Kimio]

I’ve been keenly interested in older firearms as of late and something that has struck me as a little odd is the fact that this particular firearm has yet to have been reproduced. To my knowledge, it was one of the last models of lever guns to utilize more modern ammunition, to include cartridges that utilized Spitzer rounds.

I’m not quite as familiar with all the manufacturers out there, but a quick google search doesn’t appear to yield and results regarding this particular rifle.

Does anyone know exactly why this model never seemed to garner enough attention to warrant a company, such as Uberti, to reproduce it?

[eastbank]

I have a 1895 browning repo in 30-40 krag, they made them in .270-30-40-3006 I think in several grades.

[44 AMP]

this particular firearm has yet to have been reproduced.

but a quick google search doesn’t appear to yield any results regarding this particular rifle.

You need to do a better search!

Browning has/had a model 95 Winchester, made in Japan (Miroku, I think), I've see them. Typical high end Browning, fit, finish, and price are all top of the line. I don't know if they are currently in production, but they have been. You can get one, all you need is enough $$$.

Does anyone know exactly why this model never seemed to garner enough attention to warrant a company, such as Uberti, to reproduce it

They're big, they're heavy, they kick like a mule, they're expensive to make, the design is a bit "wonky" (long lever throw, lever that goes around the magazine, etc.) but mostly, I'd say tis because the 95 does not have the look of the classic "western" lever gun.

Look at the guns that are reproduced. They're either the guns that were used in the old west, or their guns people think were used in the old west because they've been used in so many cowboy western movies.

The 95 isn't that. Too late for the "wild west", and never very popular as a deer gun. One of the things that ensured the 95 would never be really popular was simply the success and popularity of the 94. (and the 92 for smaller rounds)

Another factor was that, at the time, the benefits of pointed (spitzer) type bullets were not widely recognized. Teddy Roosevelt took the 95 on safari, and spoke highly of it as his big stick (.405) and thought it was great for lions, etc. but that's about all the famous use the 95 got.

Millions of people recognize the 94 and 92 as "Winchesters" if nothing else. Show them a model 95 and most say "what the heck is that?"

My guess why Uberti or someone else like them doesn't do the model 95 is that there isn't enough market demand that isn't met by the Browning.

[Mike Irwin]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that one of the reproductions was also made in .405 Winchester.

OK, just confirmed that yes, the reproductions were made in .405.

The Winchester Model 95 found great appeal with Texas and Arizona Rangers, primarily chambered in .30-40 Krag (apparently the US government provided surplus Krag rifles and ammunition; the rifles weren't all that popular, but why let free ammo go to waste).

(http://www.historynet.com/guns-arizo...inchesters.htm)

I've seen various things saying that Rangers had to provide their own rifles, which had to be in .30-40 if they wanted to draw ammo, or that the Rangers were issued rifles. I don't know which is the case, as I've never found anything definitive.

[T. O'Heir]

Winchester made a 'limited production' M95 in .405 Winchester back in 2001. And another non-catalog takedown version in .405, in 2005. There's two of 'em(from the same guy. One is colour case hardened.) on Gunbroker now with no bids. Starting bid is $1,650 and $1450.
No mention of 'em on Browning's site. Both companies are currently owned by FN. At least the Winchester name is used by FN.

[105kw]

Browning did two runs of 1895s in the early 90s.
One batch was 30-40 Krag, the second was in 30-06.

I've owned both, as well as a recent Winchester carbine in 30-40.

No they don't invoke great thoughts of the old west, but they are really fun to play with.
They're still decent hunting guns too.

[ATCDoktor]

I have this one for a few years (Browning 1895 repro in 30/06)

5 rounds offhand at 100 yards (168 grain BTHP handloads)



It balances extremely well with its 24 inch barrel and is one of my most accurate leverguns.

I have a Winchester Texas commerative with color case hardened receiver in 405 Winchester that I shoot once a month or so that shoots as well as the browning.

Winchester model 95 is a very neat gun.

ETA pic of my 405:

[Scorch]

that's about all the famous use the 95 got.

Can you say Melvin Purvis?

They're big, they're heavy, they kick like a mule,

Big? Yes, they sported 24" to 27" barrels. Heavy? About 10 lbs. Kick like a mule? In 405 or 30-06, shooting one is a memorable experience!

the design is a bit "wonky"

To say the least.

[Kimio]

Guess I should have said that I can’t find one currently in production. All the guns I’ve seen were on gun broker or some other auction site, so I had assumed no one was making them anymore.

Browning doesn’t appear to have them in their catalog anymore so that’s kind of a shame.

[44 AMP]

The Winchester Model 95 found great appeal with Texas and Arizona Rangers, primarily chambered in .30-40 Krag (apparently the US government provided surplus Krag rifles and ammunition; the rifles weren't all that popular, but why let free ammo go to waste).

It occurs to me that 95s might have been more popular with the Texas Rangers than the Krag because there was no bolt handle sticking out the side, and that allowed for a better smoother fit in a saddle scabbard. All you'd need it to be was deep enough for the magazine to fit...

Might not have been THE reason, but it might have been one of them...

Rangers got around on horseback a lot in those days.

I'll check into Melvin Purvis and the 95. I was under the impression he favored the Remington and Winchester autoloaders, but I'm sure he probably used a 95 at one time or another. I have a friend who has an extensive library about such things, and he gets OCD about finding answers when I ask him questions. I'll ask him tomorrow, and will probably have chapter and verse by the end of the day...will let you know the (condensed) results...

I saw one of the .405s, used, at a gunshop some years ago, (I was going to say 10, but upon reflection, it was probably closer to 20 years ago, time flies)

The price was about $800 (I think) and it had dies and some brass with it.

I shoot .45-70 (and some heavy .45-70) and .458 Win mag, so I'm somewhat familiar with what the .405 is. I took one look at the buttstock size and shape, and decided I didn't need another hard kicker, neat though it was.

[Mike Irwin]

"It occurs to me that 95s might have been more popular with the Texas Rangers than the Krag because there was no bolt handle sticking out the side, and that allowed for a better smoother fit in a saddle scabbard. All you'd need it to be was deep enough for the magazine to fit..."

Very likely the case, plus the fact that lever-actions had been standard fare for Rangers pretty much since they first became available.

One of the books that I recently finished on my Kindle was Six Years With the Texas Rangers. The author was a Ranger from 1875 to 1881.

He only talks peripherally about weapons, but makes numerous mentions of Winchester lever actions, including one of a fellow ranger jamming his Winchester by accidentally putting a .45 Colt cartridge in the magazine of his .44-40.

He also makes at least one reference to Springfield rifles, which given the time frame I'm going to assume could be a Trapdoor in either .45-70 or .50-70.

There's an interesting passage fairly early in the book...

"As soon as we were located in the new camp Privates Nevill, Bell, and Seiker obtained permission from Captain Roberts to visit Austin to buy a case of ten Winchesters. Up to this time the company was armed with .50 caliber Sharps carbines..."

"The 1873 Model Winchester had just appeared on the market and sold at $50 for the rifle and $40 for the carbine. A ranger who wanted a Winchester had to pay for it out of his own pocket and supply his own ammunition, as well, for the state furnished cartridges only for the Sharps gun."

[COSteve]

Originally Posted by Kimio

I’ve been keenly interested in older firearms as of late and something that has struck me as a little odd is the fact that this particular firearm has yet to have been reproduced. To my knowledge, it was one of the last models of lever guns to utilize more modern ammunition, to include cartridges that utilized Spitzer rounds.

I’m not quite as familiar with all the manufacturers out there, but a quick google search doesn’t appear to yield and results regarding this particular rifle.

Does anyone know exactly why this model never seemed to garner enough attention to warrant a company, such as Uberti, to reproduce it?

As others have said, your Google skills need a lot of work. As to your statement, "To my knowledge, it [Winchester 1895] was one of the last models of lever guns to utilize more modern ammunition, to include cartridges that utilized Spitzer rounds." is especially telling.

Have you ever heard of a Savage 99 first built in 1899, just 4 years after the 1895 Winchester? It has a rotary mag and shoots Spitzer bullets in calibers from 303 Savage, 300 Savage, and .308 Winchester to name a few. Further, Winchesters' own last large caliber levergun, the beautiful classic Model 88 first offered in the 1950's shoots Spitzer bullets as well in various calibers including .308.

While leverguns are uniquely American, Sako's Finnwolf levergun is also a classic. How do I know? I have both a 1949 Savage 99 in 300 Savage and a 1959 Winchester 88 in .308 as part of my 8 levergun collection.

[reinert]

I kinda remembered somewhere back in time I read that T.R. used a '95 in Cuba, too (adds a bit more to the 95's notoriety). So, here's some of Teddy's guns along with the '95 story, and the use of it in Cuba. Neat little read (IMO). I believe his '95 was no doubt a 30-40 instead of a 30-03, though... little early for the '03.

http://www.wolfandiron.com/trthursda...fle-of-choice/

Teddy also had a suppressed M94, 30-30. wow...

[Mike Irwin]

There is no evidence of Teddy Roosevelt using an 1895 Winchester in combat in Cuba, and no evidence that any of the other Rough Riders were armed with 1895s. It's even been questioned whether the story of Teddy giving his rifle to the trooper happened before or after combat in Cuba.

The Rough Riders were armed with Krag rifles. Roosevelt apparently used his political connections to obtain the rifle. His unit was the only group of US Volunteers to be armed with Krags as opposed to the Trapdoor.

After the War Roosevelt gave his former commanding officer and friend, Leonard Wood, a highly customized Winchester 1895.

"I believe his '95 was no doubt a 30-40 instead of a 30-03, though... little early for the '03."

Quite a few years too early.

[reinert]

Well, I guess that clears that up. If no '95s, I believe there were 45/70 trapdoors in use over there, too, along with the Krags. (?) That's getting off track here, though, ...sorry.

Happy St.Patty's Day to all!

[RC20]

I can't list the reference, but there was one Mexican bandit that worked the border area back when the 95 was around.

He had a 30-06 version. I forget how many people he killed before they got him, but it was close to 20 as I recall.

That may have been a reason for the Rangers to carry a gun like the 95 with a more modern cartridge, they would have been seriously outranged by anyone with a bolt action if they were carrying a 30-30.

[Slamfire]

They're big, they're heavy, they kick like a mule, they're expensive to make, the design is a bit "wonky" (long lever throw, lever that goes around the magazine, etc.) but mostly, I'd say tis because the 95 does not have the look of the classic "western" lever gun.

I would agree. When the Browning reproductions came out, I was curious, and got to handle a modern M1895 in 30-06. Not only was it heavy, the magazine box was at the balance point. With my short fingers it would have been an uncomfortable carry. I do remember Browning duplicated the original buckhorn rear sights, and I do not remember if there was any way to attach a scope. I don't think there was. If it was cheap, sure to have one, even if it was something that I could not aim well, or carry, sure, I would have bought one. But at the price....

[Mike Irwin]

" If no '95s, I believe there were 45/70 trapdoors in use over there, too, along with the Krags. (?)"

Yes, as I noted in my previous post, all US Volunteer forces except Roosevelt's unit were armed with .45-70 Trapdoors.

Given that there were more USV troops in conflict than regular army troops, the .45-70 Trapdoor was the most used firearm on the American side in the conflict.

Later, during US involvement in the Philippines, more US troops were armed with Krag rifles, but the Trapdoor was also used during the Philippine Insurrection.

[Mike Irwin]

The most common scope mount for 1895 Winchesters was an offset mount, not unlike those used on the Model 1894.

This is a link to an auction for a .30-40 with a vintage side mount and scope.

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/12411287

[Slamfire]

Later, during US involvement in the Philippines, more US troops were armed with Krag rifles, but the Trapdoor was also used during the Philippine Insurrection.

The US Invasion of the Philippines is a complicated story, and why only Regular Army Troops were issued Krag's, but the National Guard were not, is based on attitudes that are still prevalent within the US Army. The official excuse we read today, was that there were not enough Krags to go around. Maybe so but there were sufficient reserves of Krags that whole units of Territorials could have been armed with Krags, instead of Trapdoors. Considering they were facing Spanish Regulars armed with smokeless Mauser repeating rifles, the Territorials did much better than expected. Then, as now, the Regular Army up and down the chain of command view the National Guard and Reserves as "not real Army" and thus, then, did not issue Krags to the National Guard, until it became a political scandal . Which it did.

Based on my reading there was a four to one ratio of National Guard to Regulars, and you can see lots of Trapdoors in the pictures at this site, but no 1895 Winchesters

http://www.filipinoamericanwar.com/m...agunadebay.htm