US Firearms Manufacturing Co.

[Dave T]

I recently took possession of a like new USFA Pre War, Black Powder Frame, 45 Colt revolver with a 4-3/4" barrel and one piece walnut stocks. My first impression was "Wow" and after handling it for a few days while I gather the components and tools to reload 45 Colt ammunition, my impression remains the same.

The fit and finish is every bit as good as any 2nd Generation Colt I've seen or handled. I've never been allowed to handle a 1st Generation Colt that was this clean as they stay locked inside glass cases (smile).

After doing some research I've been told parts are interchangeable between Colts and the USFA guns. Also, for no good reason that I can discern, USFA shut their doors a while back. A crying shame as far as I'm concerned.

I've owned a couple Italian replica's in the past. They aren't even in the same Zip Code as the USFA revolvers. I'm scrimping and saving now in hopes of someday finding a 7-1/2" 45 from them.

If you ever run across one, at least take a close look at it. Yea, it will be more expensive than an Italian version of the same model. About half way between their going price and what is wanted for a Colt these days. In my opinion, they are worth the money and certainly worth a look, just to see a really well done SAA style revolver.

Dave

[45 Dragoon]

Well,
Depending on the age of your revolver, it may in fact be an Uberti (fit and finished stateside)! LOL !
I'll take your "zip code" but not an "area code!" The upper end Uberti/Piettas are some pretty nice revolvers for the money and any of them can be made to feel/ handle as good as any Colt/USFA out there.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Dave T]

Well thanks for telling me I got taken Dragoon. With nothing to substantiate your put down I'm not sure exactly how else I should take it.

Dave

[foolzrushn]

Just because someone isn't as infatuated with the USFA brand as you are, doesn't mean it's a put down. There should always room for a difference of opinion, right?

As far as being taken, I don't know what you paid, so you may have gotten a heck of a deal.

[Bishop Creek]

The USFA revolvers are very nice, as good as 2nd Gen Colts and better than 3rd Gen. I don't own one but have handled a few. I would love to have one.

[Tidewater_Kid]

Dave_T,

This is what he was talking about. It depends on the the serial number of the gun as to if it's a Uberti made and assembled here or a made here model.

Try this link. I have always heard these were VERY fine revolvers and I wanted one before the company went out of business.

http://www.tenring.com/firearms-single-actions/

[foolzrushn]

I've never seen one, but would like to. Anyone have further info on why they folded their tent?

[Tidewater_Kid]

Here's anther post. Seems like this is what I heard at the time.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=418361

[foolzrushn]

an interesting saga. I doubt that I will ever see one, but now I will be on the lookout for any.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Dave T:

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but the early USFA revolvers were indeed made with some Uberti parts. You can check your Serial Number against the one on the website Tidewater Kid linked to find out if yours is one or not.

Yes, the USFA revolvers were very well made, rivaling Colt in quality and surpassing all the Italian imports in quality. At one point Colt lowered their prices by about $200 to be more competitive with the USFA guns. The owner was a quirky guy, and he probably was not turning a profit on his Single Action revolvers. A few years ago he shut down all the single action production and started making some crazy 22 caliber semi-auto pistols called Zip Guns. As far as I know, these are still in production.

http://www.zipfactory.com/

It is certainly too bad he decided to do this, but he was the sole owner and it was his company to do with as he wanted.

[Dave T]

Several of you guys seem to think I'm being overly sensitive. Let me give you a little background of where I'm coming from. I started shooting 45 Colt's with an early Cimarron with the old bright blue, the finish that started wearing off the first time you put it in leather. Had another later that I quickly traded off.

I soon got interested in shooting black powder and started looking for junker 1st Gen Colts I could re-build into shooters. Over about 8 years I ended up with 5 first generation Colts, including a matching number US marked cavalry 7.5" model. I know what Colts look, feel and shoot like and I know what an Italian replica was like.

This USFA 45 Colt is so much closer to the 1st Gen Colts I owned that I can indeed say it is in a different category than the Italian revolvers I've seen. I'm sure they can be tuned up to be pretty nice. This one doesn't need to be tuned up, and that was my point.

From the links I read, provided by Tidewarter, they may have frames made by Uberti, that were then fitted and finished under the dome of the rampant Colt in Conn. That seems to have made a big difference.

Everyone's got an opinion and I was initially just expressing mine. But someone had to say something negative about it and I in turn defended it. Since it was just an opinion in the first place, it sure wasn't worth all this.

See ya,
Dave

[James K]

I have handled and fired a bunch of Colt SAA's, from 19th century to post-WWII, and IMHO the USFA guns come closest to the original (pre-WWII) Colts in feel and handling. No other ones, even today's Colts, have the same feel to me.

I have two Rodeos, a blue/case (which might have a Uberti frame), and one of the few percussion models they made. I wish they had kept turning out those guns instead of going another direction, but it was not up to me.

Jim

[45 Dragoon]

Dave T, Good gosh!! Didn't know there was any "dust up" !! Lol !!!

I was just informing you that you may have an Uberti that, in the right hands, can be fitted and finished to strict standards! Wasn't saying you got taken!

Your post could have been interpreted to be a slap to Uberti/ Pietta owners for crying out loud! Doesn't matter (necessarily) where things start, it's what they become that makes the difference.

Maybe yours was tuned before you got it. I've never seen or felt a S.A. that couldn't benefit from a good tuning. As far as that goes, any good quality S.A. can be tuned to perfect timing. I'd put my pair of 1st Mod. Dragoons up against any brand tuned or not!

I'll restrain myself in the future.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[timothy75]

I know how Dave feels and I rarely post anymore because of it. Its almost like you have to write a 2000 word essay just to make a basic statement, or you'll be referred to something you already know or made out to look like a newbie. All the while allowing everyone else to flaunt their expertise, by folks who would NEVER EVER ask a question.

[noelf2]

Wow I never felt like that here. Asked lots of questions, and always left better informed.

[45 Dragoon]

OK Timothy,

I could have said - wow! Those were all made with super duper steel and are in fact waaay better than Colts ever thought about being. They were all tuned to perfection before they left the shop and are worth there weight in gold!!

Instead, I said what I said to be a little more informative and try to be truthful. You can't change facts, just choose to ignore them or not.

Some folks read what they want to read so I guess . . . . . . . take your pick.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks


(All in less than 2000 words!)

[Dave T]

45 Dragoon,

You said in your first post on this thread, "...it may in fact be an Uberti (fit and finished stateside)! LOL !". That's not funny and in fact it is flatly untrue. The literature in the box of the gun I bought says the gun was manufactured "under the dome in the original factory in Hartford, Conn." That is why I took exception to your original comments.

Even Tidewarter_Kid mis-states his own link. TenRing says some Uberti "frames" were used, not whole guns. Jumping from frames to saying the whole gun is made by Uberti is a bit of a stretch.

You also said, "... and any of them can be made to feel/ handle as good as any Colt/USFA out there." That is an admission that Colt and USFA SA revolvers are superior to Uberti and other copies. The whole point in purchasing a Colt, or in my case a USFA is to not have to make it "feel/handle" better.

For some reason I've always run into folks in the gun hobby who feel duty bound to tell you the new gun you just acquired either is no good, what they have is just as good or better, or they can find the same thing for half the price you paid. Not sure where that need to put down some one else's property comes from but nearly everyone does it. Years gone by I've caught myself doing it a time or two and when I did I just shut up and hung my head in shame.

Dave

[AKexpat]

I am registered on several websites that have BP forums, as well as modern pistol forums.

On the modern pistol forums, the genre always seems to be "my bestest and baddest is better than your bestest and baddest".

On the BP forums, 99 and 44/100% of the genre seems to be relaxed, technically informative, and have a genuine camaraderie among posters, which is very refreshing to me. Most of the veteran posters truly have first-hand knowledge to impart.

Although I have not had any work done by Mike/Goon (.45 Dragoon), I have never seen a post denigrating any of his work. I have received PM's and emails from him, and even spoke at length with him on the phone for info about questions I have had concerning replica Italian 1851 pistols. He just talks and talks and gives out valuable information (for FREE).

IMO, anyone that can do this and not have anyone steal business away from him probably knows a vast amount and is not worried about competition.

If anyone has a conflict with what Mike posts, I would ask what the perceived problem is.

And I am not a paid/unpaid spokesman for Goongunworks.

Mike, keep supplying us with valuable info about these pistols, please.

Jim

[Hawg]

Mike knows his stuff. His work is top notch. I've never heard of anyone having any sort of problem with anything he has done. Indeed I have heard nothing but praise from all. Mike will spend as much time as necessary walking somebody through whatever they want done even tho he performs the same work himself.

[AKexpat]

@DaveT

I recently took possession of a like new USFA Pre War, Black Powder Frame, 45 Colt revolver with a 4-3/4" barrel and one piece walnut stocks.

Geez, Dave, what war are you talking about? What's a pre-war BP .45 Colt cartridge frame?

If you are talking about the Civil War, the .45 Colt SAA BP Cartridge pistol was not produced until 1873, 8 years later after Appomattox. All of the pre-(Civil) war pistols were percussion and not cartridge pistols.

I am having a hard time following your argument.

Please correct me if I am wrong, sir.

[DPris]

Dave,
I saw nothing in Mike's posts indicating you got "taken" or flinging poo on you or your gun.

USFA started out their SA line with Uberti-supplied parts, and that involved more than just frames.

They also used Uberti specs, not Colt specs.

Mike was simply attempting to give you information, and from a very knowledgeable & qualified background.
He does know his stuff.

Depending on what age & what part, specific USFA parts may or may not be interchangeable with Colts.
Remember the difference in Italian specs & Colt specs.

Donnelly ran USFA like his own personal toy store, and besides playing with various ideas that never went anyplace, also insisted in making all parts (after switching from Italian to domestic) in-house, which was a very expensive way to go about it.

At one point, about three years back, he decided to drop everything & start over with his zip-gun.

There you have a condensed USFA overview.
Denis

[45 Dragoon]

DPris, AKexpat, Hawg,

Thanks for the kind words and the help with what I was trying to get across. I figured with everyone else chiming in with other bits and pieces about USFA, it would sink in.

Dave T, I don't know why you took my post the way you did but like Colts history, Remington's history, S&W's history, all the companies that we like /revere because of what they produce/produced all have a history. USFA obviously produced very fine revolvers but to get started, they used the most cost effective way and that was to use "ready made " parts. The very company that Colts used to supply parts for their 2nd gen Blk powder series. Nothing wrong at all with doing that. In fact, I have plans of my own to offer a limited run of Dragoons. I too will use the most cost effective way.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[DPris]

And you will also tell me immediately when you have one ready to be reviewed.
Denis

[Straitshot]

Guys,

Sometimes we say things that may come over a bit insensitive or we read into someone's comments something that may not be there. That is just the way it is on public forums.

I have owned several USPtFA and USFA revolvers. All USPtFA revolvers are Uberti Parts guns fit and finished here in the USA at the old Hartford Dome. They are basically high end Uberties and in my humble opinion nothing to sneeze at. They have excellent fit and finish but again in my humble opinion are not the quality of those USFA's that are 100% USA manufacture. Early Premium USFA Single Actions serial numbers 20xxx, 21xxx, and early 22xxx revolvers are basically produced using Uberti parts and all A prefixed Rodeo's. Some or perhaps all B prefixed Rodeos are also Uberti parts guns.

I don't remember the exact year USFA began 100% in-house USA production but there are a number of ways other than serial number you can tell if your revolver is an all USA produced revolver.

All this being said, once again it is my humble opinion all USFA's are quality firearms with the 100% USA firearms arguably the best Single Action revolver ever made. First and second generation Colts are great too .

Both Uberti and Pietta have upped their quality over the last few years and their revolvers are excellent quality now. I have an old Uberti that will shoot with the best of them.

I am in no way a USFA expert but you can get a lot of accurate information about them on the CAS CITY forum web site. There are a couple of former USFA employees that frequent the web site and they can answer a lot of your question about the company and the firearms they produced.

Hope I haven't offended anyone or stepped on anyone's toes.

P.S. I believe there was also a transformation period where some firearms were produced using a combination of both Uberti and USA made parts. Some of the USA parts were subcontracted to other USA companies. Later I believe all parts were manufactured in-house at the USFA plant when they moved to their new location.

[Hawg]

Geez, Dave, what war are you talking about? What's a pre-war BP .45 Colt cartridge frame?

He's talking about pre WWII or rather a first gen Colt black powder frame which used a screw under the front of the frame to secure the cylinder pin instead of the transverse latch pin which Colt went to in 1896.