Contender options, 7TCU or 7-30?

ZX10Aviator · April 21, 2013, 04:45 PM

Found a barrel in each caliber, not sure what to go for, both seem great, I know the waters has a tiny bit more speed, anyone out there sway me one way or another?

7mm TCU I can make my own brass easily too, less powder, cheaper to shoot...

7-30 Waters, a little more punch for long range, but how far?

Thanks

steveno · April 21, 2013, 04:56 PM

7 TCU probably has a little less recoil also. very accurate. don't sell it short. as far as range is concerned probably not enough difference to worry about

ZX10Aviator · April 21, 2013, 05:58 PM

Good point, thank you

BumbleBug · April 21, 2013, 06:16 PM

I assume you are talking about using the TC as a pistol. If using it as a pistol with plenty of barrel, I'd say 7mm TCU. If you are building a carbine by all means get the Waters.

FWIW...

...bug

BTW: the Waters works well on WT deer w/120gr from personal experience.

ZX10Aviator · April 21, 2013, 06:23 PM

Yes, contender pistol setup.

Ive heard from people taking antelope at 400yds with a 7tcu, so I know its not that limited, just curious what people have to say about them.

Thank you

s4s4u · April 21, 2013, 08:44 PM

The Waters will outrun the TCU by a good margin. I prefer rimmed cases in my Contender for ease of extraction. Recoil of the Waters is not bad, I use a rifle scope on my 13" MGM tube. The only real advantage of the TCU might be brass. Go with the Waters ;-)

Quote:

taking antelope at 400yds with a 7tcu

Over-reaching a bit, IMO.

ammo.crafter · April 21, 2013, 08:55 PM

Mine is a 7x30 Waters firing from a 20 inch bull barrel. Possibly one of the most accurate calibers I've used in 50+ years of hunting. Last year I took a 351 pound boar with a head shot using a Barnes 140gt TTSX.

I easily place 5-shot groups at 100yds that can be covered by a dime.

Recoil is negligent. A pleasure to shoot.

OkieCruffler · April 21, 2013, 09:50 PM

The 7-30 is one of the truely great options in the Contender and if you need the extra horsepower I'd lean toward it. But for most applications that little tcu will do and it will do it with less powder, something I didn't pay much attention to until recently. 400 yrd goats, I'd go with the 7-30 or even step up to the 7jdj. Not saying there aren't folks who could do it with the tcu, but I ain't one of them.

hoghunting · April 22, 2013, 12:05 AM

I bought the 14" Contender barrel in 7-30 Waters for the faster velocity and greater energy than the 7 TCU. With the 120 gr Nosler BT and RL-15 my 7-30 has been deadly on hogs, deer and coyotes. Can't imagine using the 7 TCU at 400 yds for antelopes, but if you read it on the internet, then it must be true!!

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 01:32 PM

I have both barrels... the cartridges are close enough to equal in performance, when you look at the different powders, & bullets available ( for me anyway ) the TCU can be a pain to form cases ( you should really anneal the case mouth & shoulder area... but not too much into the shoulder

I also find the rimmed cases easier to reload for...

I never took the TCU P-Dogging, as I could never get enough cases made up & loaded to make it worth while to take... I did however take the 7-30, & was shooting "doggies" out to 400 yards... so I could think about Antelope at 400 ( though I wouldn't shoot anything but varmints at that distance personally ) both are very close in accuracy, but will admit, I get maybe slightly better groups with the TCU...

you can buy factory loaded ammo & formed ( correct headstamp brass ) for the 7-30 Waters ( that's a plus for me, since I already have many wildcats based on the 223 case )

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 01:37 PM

I was talking to a guy about 7TCU cases, he said he puts the 223 in and shoots it, then reloads them, says he gets less split cases that way.

The waters is only a few hundred FPS more.. we will see.

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 01:57 PM

I will admit... I've never tried that ^^^ so your extractor is the only thing holding the case when forming... don't know if that's harder on the extractor, but would think it could be... also may get light strikes... I also open my case mouths after annealing... I'd suspect that firing a 223 in the 7 TCU chamber would get more splits than by proper forming... but since I haven't done it, it's only my best guess

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 01:58 PM

I dont know personally, he said he got more splits doing it other ways. The case should ride against the frame when firing, right?

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 02:08 PM

yes... it should during firing, go up against the breech face, however, there is nothing for the 223 cartridge to headspace on, if you pushed one past the extractor, you could get one trapped under the extractor, that would require removal of the extractor to remove the live round...

once fire formed, the case should headspace on the shoulder

BTW... do you know if he was annealing the case mouths before trying to form the cases ???

eldermike · April 22, 2013, 02:30 PM

Case life with the 7 TCU is amazing. I shot IHMSA with 7 TCU for a few years and used the same set of cases I started out with, and still have them today.

I shot my 7 TCU this past weekend. I am not all that recoil sensitive but the 7 TCU is right about at the line for me, it's plenty enough. Years ago I sold all my heavy kicking TC stuff and drew the line at the 7 TCU for hand gun hunting.

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 02:35 PM

biggest barrel I shoot out of my contender is the 45-70, how does either compare to that thing?

.223 is pretty mild recoil.

BumbleBug · April 22, 2013, 02:37 PM

Firing a .223 in a 7mm TCU sounds kind of strange - I guess it's safe.

When making cases, remember that you can gradually step up the neck with other bigger dies. For instance, use a .243 or .25-06 or .260 die first to half expand the neck then finish with the standard die. Some may argue this is "double-working" but I found the reverse. Less stress is always a good thing!

At least where I shoot, .223 brass is the most plentiful laying around & experimenting a bit doesn't cost much.

FWIW...

..bug

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 02:46 PM

7 TCU or 7-30 are nothing compared to 45-70 ( my biggest boomer actually is a 375 Winchester, non hunter barrel, kicks more than my ported 45-70 )

BUG... that is how I form my brass... I anneal, then bump it up through 2-3 sizes... time consuming... but I rarely split a case mouth... even if 1 in 3 or 4 splits firing a 223 in the chamber, it would likely be worth the time savings, could anneal those that didn't crack after forming... I would question that they form & flow evenly ??? as even after my case mouth is the right diameter, I still do a light fire form load...

all this work is why I shoot more of the 7-30

eldermike · April 22, 2013, 03:23 PM

I run 223 right into a 7 TCU die, if one splits it splits. You don't lose many in my experience.

I shot under 1 inch at 100 yards this past weekend with a low listed load on a 120 grain bullet. I stopped loading maximun loads in 7 TCU back when the set back rule was added to IHMSA rules and you no longer needed the 158 grain bullet loaded to above maximun to topple the rams.

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 03:31 PM

those that shoot these barrels, how far have you taken deer or similar size animals? And with which of the two barrels?

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 03:39 PM

I don't shoot big game much over 100 yards with any of my Contender chamberings, but that's more a personal comfort level, not an energy thing... ( even though I can shoot 4 leaf clovers... 4 shots touching ) with my 45-70 barrel at 75 yards, with pretty much any decent field rest, & groups like that are not uncommon with most any of my barrels, my eyes & ethics keep me from shooting much over 100 yards with any of my handguns

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 03:40 PM

main goal for me on this is deer shooting up to 200yds

Magnum Wheel Man · April 22, 2013, 03:44 PM

if you're capable, & you can develop a good load, with a good hunting bullet, either 7mm cartridge is capable in a barrel longer than 10"... if you're looking at a 10" barrel, you may be pushing it a little ( just my opinion )

I noticed you didn't mention barrel length yet ( at least that I caught )... My regular deer hunting gun, is now a 10" 45 only Colt barrel, with fiber optic sights, but I used to hunt regularly with a 14" 45-70 barrel wearing a 2-7 Burris Posilock, then switched to a 10" 30-30 barrel, also with a Burris 2-7... just where I hunt, the shorter barrel & the fiber optics work better for me

ZX10Aviator · April 22, 2013, 03:45 PM

I like the 14" barrels so far.

BumbleBug · April 22, 2013, 05:10 PM

I have a 10" .30-30 bull barrel for my Contender with a Redfield 2x7 scope that I used when I wanted to try WT deer handgunning. Shot only 2 deer. One spike at 100 yds & a doe at 75 yds. Both ran a bit & keeled over. I think I was using 125gr Nosler original BTs.

Deer hunting with the Contender didn't excite me much. If I handgun for deer again I'll use a .357 revolver with open sights. Now don't get me wrong, that's just me & I love my TC & my half dozen barrels! I read an article by a guy that called his Contender in a rifle cartridge a "Pistifle" & that's how I kinda feel about it.

Hunting & shooting is all good!

...bug

April 21, 2013, 04:45 PM	#1
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	Contender options, 7TCU or 7-30? Found a barrel in each caliber, not sure what to go for, both seem great, I know the waters has a tiny bit more speed, anyone out there sway me one way or another? 7mm TCU I can make my own brass easily too, less powder, cheaper to shoot... 7-30 Waters, a little more punch for long range, but how far? Thanks

April 21, 2013, 08:55 PM	#7
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	7mm Mine is a 7x30 Waters firing from a 20 inch bull barrel. Possibly one of the most accurate calibers I've used in 50+ years of hunting. Last year I took a 351 pound boar with a head shot using a Barnes 140gt TTSX. I easily place 5-shot groups at 100yds that can be covered by a dime. Recoil is negligent. A pleasure to shoot. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

April 21, 2013, 09:50 PM	#8
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	The 7-30 is one of the truely great options in the Contender and if you need the extra horsepower I'd lean toward it. But for most applications that little tcu will do and it will do it with less powder, something I didn't pay much attention to until recently. 400 yrd goats, I'd go with the 7-30 or even step up to the 7jdj. Not saying there aren't folks who could do it with the tcu, but I ain't one of them. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

April 22, 2013, 01:32 PM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I have both barrels... the cartridges are close enough to equal in performance, when you look at the different powders, & bullets available ( for me anyway ) the TCU can be a pain to form cases ( you should really anneal the case mouth & shoulder area... but not too much into the shoulder I also find the rimmed cases easier to reload for... I never took the TCU P-Dogging, as I could never get enough cases made up & loaded to make it worth while to take... I did however take the 7-30, & was shooting "doggies" out to 400 yards... so I could think about Antelope at 400 ( though I wouldn't shoot anything but varmints at that distance personally ) both are very close in accuracy, but will admit, I get maybe slightly better groups with the TCU... you can buy factory loaded ammo & formed ( correct headstamp brass ) for the 7-30 Waters ( that's a plus for me, since I already have many wildcats based on the 223 case ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 22, 2013, 01:57 PM	#12
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I will admit... I've never tried that ^^^ so your extractor is the only thing holding the case when forming... don't know if that's harder on the extractor, but would think it could be... also may get light strikes... I also open my case mouths after annealing... I'd suspect that firing a 223 in the 7 TCU chamber would get more splits than by proper forming... but since I haven't done it, it's only my best guess __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 21, 2013, 04:56 PM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	7 TCU probably has a little less recoil also. very accurate. don't sell it short. as far as range is concerned probably not enough difference to worry about

April 21, 2013, 05:58 PM	#3
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	Good point, thank you

April 21, 2013, 06:16 PM	#4
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	I assume you are talking about using the TC as a pistol. If using it as a pistol with plenty of barrel, I'd say 7mm TCU. If you are building a carbine by all means get the Waters. FWIW... ...bug BTW: the Waters works well on WT deer w/120gr from personal experience.

April 21, 2013, 06:23 PM	#5
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	Yes, contender pistol setup. Ive heard from people taking antelope at 400yds with a 7tcu, so I know its not that limited, just curious what people have to say about them. Thank you

April 22, 2013, 12:05 AM	#9
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	I bought the 14" Contender barrel in 7-30 Waters for the faster velocity and greater energy than the 7 TCU. With the 120 gr Nosler BT and RL-15 my 7-30 has been deadly on hogs, deer and coyotes. Can't imagine using the 7 TCU at 400 yds for antelopes, but if you read it on the internet, then it must be true!!

April 22, 2013, 01:37 PM	#11
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	I was talking to a guy about 7TCU cases, he said he puts the 223 in and shoots it, then reloads them, says he gets less split cases that way. The waters is only a few hundred FPS more.. we will see.

April 22, 2013, 01:58 PM	#13
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	I dont know personally, he said he got more splits doing it other ways. The case should ride against the frame when firing, right?

April 22, 2013, 02:08 PM	#14
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	yes... it should during firing, go up against the breech face, however, there is nothing for the 223 cartridge to headspace on, if you pushed one past the extractor, you could get one trapped under the extractor, that would require removal of the extractor to remove the live round... once fire formed, the case should headspace on the shoulder BTW... do you know if he was annealing the case mouths before trying to form the cases ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 22, 2013, 02:30 PM	#15
eldermike Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2013 Location: NC Posts: 545	Case life with the 7 TCU is amazing. I shot IHMSA with 7 TCU for a few years and used the same set of cases I started out with, and still have them today. I shot my 7 TCU this past weekend. I am not all that recoil sensitive but the 7 TCU is right about at the line for me, it's plenty enough. Years ago I sold all my heavy kicking TC stuff and drew the line at the 7 TCU for hand gun hunting.

April 22, 2013, 02:35 PM	#16
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	biggest barrel I shoot out of my contender is the 45-70, how does either compare to that thing? .223 is pretty mild recoil.

April 22, 2013, 02:37 PM	#17
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	Firing a .223 in a 7mm TCU sounds kind of strange - I guess it's safe. When making cases, remember that you can gradually step up the neck with other bigger dies. For instance, use a .243 or .25-06 or .260 die first to half expand the neck then finish with the standard die. Some may argue this is "double-working" but I found the reverse. Less stress is always a good thing! At least where I shoot, .223 brass is the most plentiful laying around & experimenting a bit doesn't cost much. FWIW... ..bug

April 22, 2013, 02:46 PM	#18
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	7 TCU or 7-30 are nothing compared to 45-70 ( my biggest boomer actually is a 375 Winchester, non hunter barrel, kicks more than my ported 45-70 ) BUG... that is how I form my brass... I anneal, then bump it up through 2-3 sizes... time consuming... but I rarely split a case mouth... even if 1 in 3 or 4 splits firing a 223 in the chamber, it would likely be worth the time savings, could anneal those that didn't crack after forming... I would question that they form & flow evenly ??? as even after my case mouth is the right diameter, I still do a light fire form load... all this work is why I shoot more of the 7-30 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 22, 2013, 03:23 PM	#19
eldermike Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2013 Location: NC Posts: 545	I run 223 right into a 7 TCU die, if one splits it splits. You don't lose many in my experience. I shot under 1 inch at 100 yards this past weekend with a low listed load on a 120 grain bullet. I stopped loading maximun loads in 7 TCU back when the set back rule was added to IHMSA rules and you no longer needed the 158 grain bullet loaded to above maximun to topple the rams.

April 22, 2013, 03:31 PM	#20
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	those that shoot these barrels, how far have you taken deer or similar size animals? And with which of the two barrels?

April 22, 2013, 03:39 PM	#21
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I don't shoot big game much over 100 yards with any of my Contender chamberings, but that's more a personal comfort level, not an energy thing... ( even though I can shoot 4 leaf clovers... 4 shots touching ) with my 45-70 barrel at 75 yards, with pretty much any decent field rest, & groups like that are not uncommon with most any of my barrels, my eyes & ethics keep me from shooting much over 100 yards with any of my handguns __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 22, 2013, 03:40 PM	#22
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	main goal for me on this is deer shooting up to 200yds

April 22, 2013, 03:44 PM	#23
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	if you're capable, & you can develop a good load, with a good hunting bullet, either 7mm cartridge is capable in a barrel longer than 10"... if you're looking at a 10" barrel, you may be pushing it a little ( just my opinion ) I noticed you didn't mention barrel length yet ( at least that I caught )... My regular deer hunting gun, is now a 10" 45 only Colt barrel, with fiber optic sights, but I used to hunt regularly with a 14" 45-70 barrel wearing a 2-7 Burris Posilock, then switched to a 10" 30-30 barrel, also with a Burris 2-7... just where I hunt, the shorter barrel & the fiber optics work better for me __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 22, 2013, 03:45 PM	#24
ZX10Aviator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: NW. Washington Posts: 345	I like the 14" barrels so far.

April 22, 2013, 05:10 PM	#25
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	I have a 10" .30-30 bull barrel for my Contender with a Redfield 2x7 scope that I used when I wanted to try WT deer handgunning. Shot only 2 deer. One spike at 100 yds & a doe at 75 yds. Both ran a bit & keeled over. I think I was using 125gr Nosler original BTs. Deer hunting with the Contender didn't excite me much. If I handgun for deer again I'll use a .357 revolver with open sights. Now don't get me wrong, that's just me & I love my TC & my half dozen barrels! I read an article by a guy that called his Contender in a rifle cartridge a "Pistifle" & that's how I kinda feel about it. Hunting & shooting is all good! ...bug