Fully Auto CAR setup

[racine]

I have a CAR 15 semiauto setup that I use for three gun matches. I will be moving to a state that allows ownership of fully auto rifles and was wondering what is involved in upgrading my CAR to fully auto( it is already a preban). What would a setup like this cost????
Thanks for any and all you can help with... That state is Oregon...
TR

[Gopher a 45]

You're not serious, are you? If you're a civilian, you can forget it. You'll have to pay $2000-2500 (at least) for a pre-1986 full auto CAR and wait six months to a year while the BATF paperwork goes through. Sorry.

[blades67]

Find a Class III dealer in your new state and check with him. You will need a BATF packet that will include two fingerprint cards and a Form 4 card I think. Take the fingerprint cards to your local PD and have them fingerprint you. You will need two Passport style photos of yourself as well. You will send the photos, fingerprint cards, Form 4 and a check for 200$ to the BATF and wait 90 days to a year for them to send you the Form 4 with the approval stamp. Then you can buy the sear (which may cost you 3500$+/- depending) and install it. You should, after getting the Form 4 back from the BATF, make a copy to be kept with the rifle and keep the original in a safe deposit box or in your gun safe if it's fire proof.

Again, check with a Class III dealer in your new state because I may have missed something. Good luck and enjoy.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.

[James K]

My advice would be to forget it. You can buy an auto sear legally, as Blades67 says, but many are of poor quality and do not allow selective fire, that is, once installed they are full auto only.

If you can find a functioning full auto CAR, and can afford the ticket, that would be the way to go. Converting or attempting to convert in any other way is illegal.

In addition, many (most) ranges will not allow full auto fire for both PR and practical reasons.

Jim

[Bob_L]

Jim, you are not entirely correct. By the price range listed, blades67 is referring to a Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS). This simulates the autosear in an M16. This requires that when you install the DIAS, you also replace the Bolt, hammer, disconnector, trigger, and selector with the M16 equivlent parts. This DOES allow for select fire. FYI, the going price seems to be more like $4000

What Jim is probably thinking of is a Lightning Link. These quickly drop into AR15s and convert them to full auto/safe only. These can be removed & installed in just a few seconds, so the full auto only is usually not a problem. The going price for these is usually around $2500. Note that these only work with the standard AR15 .223 bolt (none of the other caliber conversions work with this).

Also, I'd like to correct a few of the things that blades67 said about the Form 4 process:

1. Find somebody selling the desired NFA item (in this case maybe a DIAS). It doesn't have to be a Class 3 dealer, but it does have to be in your state (if you want something out of state, it will have to be transferred to a C3 dealer in your state [$200], then transferred to you).

2. You will typically have to either pay all up front, or 50% up front, then the remaining 50% after a given time (this is negotiated on a per sale basis, but the de facto standard is to pay 100% up front).

3. When you agree on terms & payment methods, the SELLER must complete two originals of the first half of the form (serial #, model #, etc), and sign it.

4. You then take these two originals and attach passport photos to them (in the marked location). You also need to fill out the back half of the form but don't sign it yet.

5. Next you need to go to your local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) and have him sign the forms. This will range from a trivial matter to nearly impossible, depending on the political atmosphere of your local area. This is when you sign the forms as well. I'm telling you not to sign the forms until you are in front of the CLEO because some of them will not sign unless they watch you sign the form. FYI, the CLEO is typically the county sherriff or the chief of police, but can be one of several other officials. The ATF can tell you which officials can sign for you.

6. While you're at the sherriff's office / police station, have them fingerprint you. You need to have them use two ATF fingerprint cards. These cards (and Form 4's) can be gotten from the ATF by calling them - they'll send you some). The local PD usually charges ~$5 for the fingerprinting.

7. Next, take the two completed (and signed) Form 4's, the two fingerprint cards, and a money order for $200 made out to the Dept. of Treasury, drop them in an envelope, and mail them to the ATF (the mailing address is on the Form 4).

8. Now you just wait. A typical Form 4 transfer takes between 2-5 months (with extreme cases taking longer or shorter, but it's usually between 2-5 months). Eventually, the Form 4 will be approved and one of the originals will be returned (to the seller I believe). The seller will then call you, and you will then need to go and take possession of the item.

If you are interested in NFA weapons, I highly reccomend Tom Bower's NFA board at www.subguns.com


[This message has been edited by Bob_L (edited April 07, 2000).]

[racine]

Thanks for all your informative replies. It seems it would be better to purchase a premade Fully Auto rifle than to have to alter one. The registration process seems rather long but for good reason. Once again, thanks for all the great suggestions...
TR

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TR