Learned a lesson tonight - Page 6

AH.74 · July 30, 2011, 01:01 PM

MikeNice- I don't consider myself an expert either, and it is unfortunate that you have assumed based on simple arguments that I consider the gun as a first option. I assuredly do not. It is a last option. I am only arguing based upon information provided in this thread, I have brought none of my own variables into play to support my argument. I don't play that way unlike some of our other participants. I am also no troll, look at my post count and how long I've been a member. I don't post to troll, I choose my subjects selectively and post sparingly.

I have also, unfortunately, been there and done that. I have also lived it, in the real world. Two years ago I had a situation, the state police were involved and I also was told I had acted accordingly. I was not charged, the other person was. It is not something I ever wish to experience again, nor would I wish it on anyone else.

You are not the only one who thinks they have knowledge and experience and that others should pay attention to what they say. I don't do this to have people "look at me," I participate to learn and engage in intelligent discussions. I am not here to justify myself to anyone.

cole k · August 11, 2011, 05:13 PM

Ankle holsters always seemed like bad idea to me. They are difficult to get to if you need it in a hurry.
I do not open carry.
My BUG pistol is in my left front pocket or IWB at about the 4 o'clock position on my left side. My primary is OWB on the right side.

Hook686 · August 11, 2011, 06:02 PM

pax wrote:

Quote:

An angry person shouting threats as in the OP (especially if they are saying they will kill me as the case has become) and advancing toward me with raised fists has me in reasonable suspicion of being in danger of great bodily harm.

No.

You might have such a fear.

But it is not a reasonable fear.

I happen to think it is if there is disparity, such as size, age, physical condition, number of folks involved for example.

Do you really think a disabled old man's fear in such a situation is unreasonable ?

**OldMarksman** · August 11, 2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Posted by Hook686: I happen to think it is [a reasonable fear] if there is disparity, such as size, age, physical condition, number of folks involved for example.

You are correct in your characterization of the disparity of force argument. However, that's usually a tough defense with which to prevail.

That's the "A" of A, O, J, P" and it is not clear cut.

Regarding the "J", verbal threats very rarely cut it.

And finally, regarding "P", what were the alternatives?

markj · August 12, 2011, 02:33 PM

Man, rude people suck and that guy was a bit rude.

Had a similiar event last fall, I was at a red light when it turned green I went into the intersection and a car did not stop, I hit it and wrecked it completly. My truck wasnt hurt cept for the lisence bracket. The kid was in his cousins car, so cousin and his Dad show up, cousin wants my information, my policy numbers etc. I asked them to dial up 911 all 3 had a cell, none would dial, they got aggressive, I told that kid Iwas gonna kick his rear end, then his cousin then his dad then everyone he knows. He got right up into my face kid had his cell camera running waiting for me to hit the cousin. So I told them wait here and walked the parking lot to the store to call 911. They beat feet outta there. So I think they wanted me to get into them so they could call the law and get me in trouble.

I told that kid his boy was at fault and I would only give my info to a cop which they refused to call.

Stevie-Ray · August 12, 2011, 09:29 PM

I carry my BUG in my rt back pocket, and it's easy to get to. Normally I carry it along with a 3" .45 ACP 1911, OWB@3:30, but if for some reason the primary is not on me, the pocket gun always is. First rule of a gunfight and all....These days, it seems, like you, I find people are getting progressively uglier, so I rarely have just one on me anymore. When I am with the handicapped wife, any crappy contact like your incident, is handled much the same way, but it really sticks in my craw because it seems to only embolden punks into thinking everybody is a pushover to them. Getting slapped down is the only thing that makes them think otherwise. I've not done that since I've carried a gun, and try to spend the time de-escalating those situations, rather than worry about when to pull my firearm. I'm hoping to move out of here before ever having "that incident."

Nanuk · August 13, 2011, 06:47 AM

Ankle holsters have their place, but not for your only gun. Had a friend that was ambushed and almost died (Shot 3 times) because his off duty gun was a snubby 38 in an ankle holster.

I use one for a rotating BUG.

bikerbill · August 20, 2011, 01:11 PM

I've never used an ankle holster; my favorite carry position is pocket, and here's why ... there's no other carry method I can think of where you can have your hand ON your weapon as you go about your business with nobody the wiser ... If you had needed your gun -- and I'm very glad you didn't -- wouldn't it have been reassuring to have your hand on it while you held your daughter in a safe position with the other? Practice pocket drawing until it's smooth and natural, you will isntantly have a big advantage over someone who has to draw from a belt holster, IWB or OWB, and a night-and-day advantage over ankle carry.

August 12, 2011, 09:29 PM	#131
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I carry my BUG in my rt back pocket, and it's easy to get to. Normally I carry it along with a 3" .45 ACP 1911, OWB@3:30, but if for some reason the primary is not on me, the pocket gun always is. First rule of a gunfight and all....These days, it seems, like you, I find people are getting progressively uglier, so I rarely have just one on me anymore. When I am with the handicapped wife, any crappy contact like your incident, is handled much the same way, but it really sticks in my craw because it seems to only embolden punks into thinking everybody is a pushover to them. Getting slapped down is the only thing that makes them think otherwise. I've not done that since I've carried a gun, and try to spend the time de-escalating those situations, rather than worry about when to pull my firearm. I'm hoping to move out of here before ever having "that incident." __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

August 13, 2011, 06:47 AM	#132
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	Ankle holsters have their place, but not for your only gun. Had a friend that was ambushed and almost died (Shot 3 times) because his off duty gun was a snubby 38 in an ankle holster. I use one for a rotating BUG. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

August 20, 2011, 01:11 PM	#133
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	I've never used an ankle holster; my favorite carry position is pocket, and here's why ... there's no other carry method I can think of where you can have your hand ON your weapon as you go about your business with nobody the wiser ... If you had needed your gun -- and I'm very glad you didn't -- wouldn't it have been reassuring to have your hand on it while you held your daughter in a safe position with the other? Practice pocket drawing until it's smooth and natural, you will isntantly have a big advantage over someone who has to draw from a belt holster, IWB or OWB, and a night-and-day advantage over ankle carry. __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

July 30, 2011, 01:01 PM	#126
AH.74 Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Hermit's Peak Posts: 623	MikeNice- I don't consider myself an expert either, and it is unfortunate that you have assumed based on simple arguments that I consider the gun as a first option. I assuredly do not. It is a last option. I am only arguing based upon information provided in this thread, I have brought none of my own variables into play to support my argument. I don't play that way unlike some of our other participants. I am also no troll, look at my post count and how long I've been a member. I don't post to troll, I choose my subjects selectively and post sparingly. I have also, unfortunately, been there and done that. I have also lived it, in the real world. Two years ago I had a situation, the state police were involved and I also was told I had acted accordingly. I was not charged, the other person was. It is not something I ever wish to experience again, nor would I wish it on anyone else. You are not the only one who thinks they have knowledge and experience and that others should pay attention to what they say. I don't do this to have people "look at me," I participate to learn and engage in intelligent discussions. I am not here to justify myself to anyone.

August 11, 2011, 05:13 PM	#127
cole k Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2008 Location: east of the Big Muddy Posts: 248	Ankle holsters always seemed like bad idea to me. They are difficult to get to if you need it in a hurry. I do not open carry. My BUG pistol is in my left front pocket or IWB at about the 4 o'clock position on my left side. My primary is OWB on the right side.

August 12, 2011, 02:33 PM	#130
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Man, rude people suck and that guy was a bit rude. Had a similiar event last fall, I was at a red light when it turned green I went into the intersection and a car did not stop, I hit it and wrecked it completly. My truck wasnt hurt cept for the lisence bracket. The kid was in his cousins car, so cousin and his Dad show up, cousin wants my information, my policy numbers etc. I asked them to dial up 911 all 3 had a cell, none would dial, they got aggressive, I told that kid Iwas gonna kick his rear end, then his cousin then his dad then everyone he knows. He got right up into my face kid had his cell camera running waiting for me to hit the cousin. So I told them wait here and walked the parking lot to the store to call 911. They beat feet outta there. So I think they wanted me to get into them so they could call the law and get me in trouble. I told that kid his boy was at fault and I would only give my info to a cop which they refused to call.