Why and what sawed off shotgun?

OneBulletBarney · December 18, 2007, 01:20 AM

Obviously new to guns...All guns. Besides the practice and feel of hand guns or shotguns. Why do I see criminals on TV have or make or use sawed off shot guns?

Are they legal and what is the benefit to doing this?

Crosshair · December 18, 2007, 01:23 AM

For barrel lengths under 18" you need to pay the $200 NFA tax and get ATF approval before you cut the barrel down.

As for the reason, the shorter barrel makes for an easier to conceal weapon and one that is easier to maneuver with in confined spaces. (Such as in a house.) As for the pistol grip only stocks. Don't waste your money unless you plan on being within spitting distance or blowing door locks off. (Folding stocks are OK though in my book.)

BillCA · December 18, 2007, 03:19 AM

Legalese Definition:
A "sawed off" shotgun is any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18-inches or with an overall length under 26".

The purpose of a sawed-off shotgun is to end up with a concealable, short-range weapon of considerable power. How it is used, of course, depends on the individual.

A short barreled "sawed off" shotgun will lack any form of choke to restrict the spread of the shot pattern. This means that the pattern will spread at least as fast as a "cylinder bore" shotgun, but at shorter range than a longer barrel.

Criminals saw off shotguns to obtain a concealable firearm that is often cheaper than a handgun and easier to obtain. Citizens, prior to 1934, used cut-down shotguns for convenience in their homes, cars, on their farms and farm tractors.

Prior to the 1934 National Firearms Act, they were not illegal. In fact several companies made pistol-sized shotguns in various gauges. Best known was probably the Ithaca Auto-Burglar(scroll down) which were pistol-gripped shotguns with 10-14" barrels, mostly in 28 and 20 gauge. The somewhat similar Stevens Off-Hand Shotgun and Auto-Shot pistol was also available.

The "Auto" designation in these guns had little to do with automatic features. Rather it denoted their handy use from within an automobile. When one considers that cars of the era were equipped with running boards which a thug could step onto when the car slowed for a turn or stopped at an intersection (and few cars had door locks), a thief facing one of these short shotgun would be at a distinct disadvantage.

Ithaca's "Auto-Burglar" also denoted the usefulness of such a small, powerful gun in stopping burglars in or around the home, farm, ranch, etc.

The Marble's Game Getter was an early forerunner of a "survival" gun, combining a .22 caliber rifle barrel over a larger (either .44 caliber or .410 gauge) smoothbore barrel. (The .44 smoothbore fired either a shot load or a round ball cartridge).

Modern "sawed off" shotguns are available at a premium price. One company converts Mossberg or Remington shotguns to a pistol-sized package (which requires a federal tax-stamp) marketed as the Super Shorty.

I think a pump shotgun like the Super Shorty, designed around a 1" shell like the Agulia "mini shell" with a 4-5 shot capacity would be an excellent home-defense shotgun (with #4 buckshot perhaps?).

Black Adder LXX · December 20, 2007, 10:33 PM

You have been watching "Shotgun Tech" on Modern Marvels....

BillCA thanks foe that great answer, I feel like I'm watching the History Channel.

YukonKid · December 20, 2007, 11:52 PM

That super shorty looks awesome. There is a company in Cananda that makes extreamly small 870's. I cannot remeber the name at this moment, but someone will come along and enlighten us

BillCA · December 22, 2007, 12:34 AM

Black Adder,

You're welcome for the info. I didn't know Modern Marvels had a program on shotguns... or did they?

All of the above was from memory, except the links I searched for.

I've fired a 28ga Ithaca Auto-Burglar once. Not as bad as I expected but plenty of power to scrape some thug off your running boards.

December 18, 2007, 01:20 AM	#1
OneBulletBarney Junior Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 3	Why and what sawed off shotgun? Obviously new to guns...All guns. Besides the practice and feel of hand guns or shotguns. Why do I see criminals on TV have or make or use sawed off shot guns? Are they legal and what is the benefit to doing this?

December 18, 2007, 01:23 AM	#2
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	For barrel lengths under 18" you need to pay the $200 NFA tax and get ATF approval before you cut the barrel down. As for the reason, the shorter barrel makes for an easier to conceal weapon and one that is easier to maneuver with in confined spaces. (Such as in a house.) As for the pistol grip only stocks. Don't waste your money unless you plan on being within spitting distance or blowing door locks off. (Folding stocks are OK though in my book.) __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

December 18, 2007, 03:19 AM	#3
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Legalese Definition: A "sawed off" shotgun is any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18-inches or with an overall length under 26". The purpose of a sawed-off shotgun is to end up with a concealable, short-range weapon of considerable power. How it is used, of course, depends on the individual. A short barreled "sawed off" shotgun will lack any form of choke to restrict the spread of the shot pattern. This means that the pattern will spread at least as fast as a "cylinder bore" shotgun, but at shorter range than a longer barrel. Criminals saw off shotguns to obtain a concealable firearm that is often cheaper than a handgun and easier to obtain. Citizens, prior to 1934, used cut-down shotguns for convenience in their homes, cars, on their farms and farm tractors. Prior to the 1934 National Firearms Act, they were not illegal. In fact several companies made pistol-sized shotguns in various gauges. Best known was probably the Ithaca Auto-Burglar(scroll down) which were pistol-gripped shotguns with 10-14" barrels, mostly in 28 and 20 gauge. The somewhat similar Stevens Off-Hand Shotgun and Auto-Shot pistol was also available. The "Auto" designation in these guns had little to do with automatic features. Rather it denoted their handy use from within an automobile. When one considers that cars of the era were equipped with running boards which a thug could step onto when the car slowed for a turn or stopped at an intersection (and few cars had door locks), a thief facing one of these short shotgun would be at a distinct disadvantage. Ithaca's "Auto-Burglar" also denoted the usefulness of such a small, powerful gun in stopping burglars in or around the home, farm, ranch, etc. The Marble's Game Getter was an early forerunner of a "survival" gun, combining a .22 caliber rifle barrel over a larger (either .44 caliber or .410 gauge) smoothbore barrel. (The .44 smoothbore fired either a shot load or a round ball cartridge). Modern "sawed off" shotguns are available at a premium price. One company converts Mossberg or Remington shotguns to a pistol-sized package (which requires a federal tax-stamp) marketed as the Super Shorty. I think a pump shotgun like the Super Shorty, designed around a 1" shell like the Agulia "mini shell" with a 4-5 shot capacity would be an excellent home-defense shotgun (with #4 buckshot perhaps?). __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

December 20, 2007, 11:52 PM	#5
YukonKid Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: NW Posts: 744	That super shorty looks awesome. There is a company in Cananda that makes extreamly small 870's. I cannot remeber the name at this moment, but someone will come along and enlighten us __________________ This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

December 22, 2007, 12:34 AM	#6
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Black Adder, You're welcome for the info. I didn't know Modern Marvels had a program on shotguns... or did they? All of the above was from memory, except the links I searched for. I've fired a 28ga Ithaca Auto-Burglar once. Not as bad as I expected but plenty of power to scrape some thug off your running boards. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

December 20, 2007, 10:33 PM	#4
Black Adder LXX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Location: The DEEP South Posts: 293	You have been watching "Shotgun Tech" on Modern Marvels.... BillCA thanks foe that great answer, I feel like I'm watching the History Channel. __________________ "In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." - John Adams