I can't out-shoot bullseye shooters

jimmythegeek · November 13, 2012, 01:24 AM

Tonight I was making up for a lost weekend (lost to working) and went to a 50' indoor range nearby. I was practicing prone until my neck went out and I worked off-hand. The other 4 guys there were Bullseye shooters. On the same target, slow fire, with a pretty accurate rifle I scored about an 80, I think. Hoo, boy I need practice. I can catch myself flinching or jerking the trigger, lots of bad habits.

Now, these are guys who have been working at their craft a long time, but still. Maybe I can blame their optics....

Metal god · November 13, 2012, 02:58 AM

Yea I feel your pain . I just started shooting for real accuracy in the last year or so . Everytime I think I'm pretty good somebody in the lane next to me puts me in my place . They will bring in there target and it will be one raggid hole or something . I just think I still got alot of work to do . I also see the other side as well . I've been shooting and here a guy calling out shots for his buddy .The guy can't shoot a group if his life depended on it and I think how is that posible your only 50 yards away with a scope

. It takes real discipline and many shots down range to get uber accurate .

spacecoast · November 13, 2012, 06:00 AM

50 feet is child's play to someone who shoots one-handed slow fire at 50 yards (and timed/rapid fire at 25 yards).

B.L.E. · November 13, 2012, 07:42 AM

I

to those who routinely shoot high 90's or 100's in bullseye pistol.

PetahW · November 13, 2012, 09:25 AM

It's easier to blame the tool(s).

.

kraigwy · November 13, 2012, 11:12 AM

OK, practice, and get good with Bullseye, then to keep your head from getting too big, so shoot with some International Shooters.

I think the OP started out with rifle and this drifted to pistols....It doesn't matter.

I'm a HP shooter. When I was in Alaska it got a bit nippy for shooting outside so I took up indoor small bore in the winter to keep in shape.

I would get pretty good, and COCKY, then I'd enter a match with some college kids. Those kids from the U of A, made it look like I was throwing rocks.

You don't get better by shooting with average shooters that you can outshoot, you get better by trying to beat the great shooters.

An example: When I first hired on with the Anchorage Police Dept. I didn't shoot my service revolver as well as I would like. We had an indoor range so every night after shift, I'd challenge one of my friends who was dern good with his revolver. We shot for coffee and I bought a lot of coffee.

I didn't give up, and eventually he was buying my coffee.

I think its called SETTING GOALS.

Old Grump · November 13, 2012, 11:46 AM

I had a standing challenge to my students. A steak dinner if they could out shoot me on any single target in a match. They set their goal and kept me honest. One dinner in 5 years wasn't to bad and I was glad to do it. If you aren't pushed by somebody you have no reason to stay sharp or get sharper.

Humble is when they put you on a relay with the national men and women champions on either side of you. Then he coached me because I asked for it and took what I learned back to my students. It is all good.

JimDandy · November 13, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

It's easier to blame the tool(s).

Which tools? The guns, or the evil bastards outshooting you without realizing you're comparing your results to theirs?

pgdion · November 13, 2012, 12:48 PM

Scouts usually shoot 50' small bore, no scopes. I always offer up the challenge that I will buy a pop for anyone who beats my score. It keeps the scouts focused on trying and keeps me focused too. I buy a pop once in a while which is good. Some of our scouts are getting really good at shooting. We have a couple of Sharpshooters and 1 working towards Expert.

I think it helps having a couple of leaders in our Troop that are enthusiasts.

Slamfire · November 13, 2012, 04:20 PM

Gunwriters will advise to buy new equipment, expensive esoteric reloading equipment, it quite clear from the magazines: you can compensate for poor shooting skills by buying things.

But in the real world, nothing beats practice.

603Country · November 13, 2012, 07:22 PM

Old Grump just said something that really hits home - in that you won't get better unless you are pushed. That is so true, and not just in shooting.

TPAW · November 13, 2012, 08:16 PM

Try different manufactuers of ammo and determine which one your gun likes to eat. They don't all have the same point of impact. It's a tedious and time consuming process, but worth it. Good Luck!

sc928porsche · November 16, 2012, 01:52 AM

ex wife used to shoot standing cigarettes (butts wedged into a crack in a stump) in half with my rifles. Didnt seem to make much diffference which rifle. One shot to see placement (intentionally a bit low) and the the second would make the cigarette disappear. This at 100yds. Everyone who knows her calls her Kathy Oakley. Oh well, some of us have the talent and the rest of us wish we did. I do ok, but I am one of those wishers.

45_auto · November 16, 2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

One shot to see placement (intentionally a bit low) and the the second would make the cigarette disappear. This at 100yds.

What kind of rifles do you have that will consistently shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards (figuring a cigarette is about 1/4" wide)?

Not too hard with a bench rest gun, but I haven't seen many others that will do it.

sc928porsche · November 17, 2012, 01:12 AM

Most of them are custom mausers

TPAW · November 17, 2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

the second would make the cigarette disappear. This at 100yds. Everyone who knows her calls her Kathy Oakley

She must be using a scope, right? Either that, or she has extraordinary vision!
Is it possible to even SEE a cigarette at 100 yards without a scope?

sc928porsche · November 17, 2012, 11:51 AM

Of course these rifles are scoped. Fact is, that most rifles are a lot more accurate than their shooters. Inability to get close groups is usually the shooters fault and not that of the firearm or the ammunition. I will lay you odds that if your rifle were to be attached to a bench or heavy platform and you were able to see the results, you would be amazed.

The point being that some have and incredible talent. Larson could keep a can in the air with a bolt action rifle without sights (watched the man do it when I was a kid), Knapp is no slouch with a shotgun, and there are others. Known and unknown. All of these shooters have a natural talent. You can only train to your ability.

Jimro · November 19, 2012, 11:38 PM

Anyone can become a better shooter, up until they can't. You won't know where and when that happens until you get there. There are some pretty impressive Senior scores in High Power. So I have a lot of hope that I can continue to improve for a few more decades.

Jimro

darkgael · November 20, 2012, 04:26 AM

Quote:

50 feet is child's play to someone who shoots one-handed slow fire at 50 yards (and timed/rapid fire at 25 yards).

You might be surprised. The indoor 50 ft. Slow Fire target (B2) is one of the more difficult in Bullseye. The national record for 20 shots SF indoors with a .22 pistol is co-held by four men at 199. The outdoor record for .22 pistol at 50 yards is 200-12X, co-held by two men. Lots of guys have shot 199s.(Well...maybe not "lots".)
Pete

B.L.E. · November 20, 2012, 06:58 AM

What gets me a lot, both in pistol and rifle offhand shooting is miss anxiety induced flinching or "the yips". When this happens, I can flinch with a .22. It's not the recoil and noise, it's yanking the trigger while the sights are on the X while I am getting tireder and tireder holding the aim.
It starts with "chicken finger" where you can't get yourself to increase pressure on the trigger because when you do, it seems to turn on some sort of magnet that repels the bullseye, then you start getting tired and you want to get the shot over with and BANG!!!, another bullet hole in the white part of the target.

btmj · November 20, 2012, 10:18 AM

Yes this ^^^

Picher · November 20, 2012, 07:38 PM

I'm clearly on the way down in my shooting. I've made some pretty nice shots over the years, winning lots of matches and turkey shoots. I still can shoot offhand pretty well, but am not quite as good as I was five years ago.

This week, I was fortunate enough to kill a grouse by hitting it in the head at 35+ yards with my .270 Win, as it walked along ahead of me on a snowmobile trail. That made my day. The deer I killed yesterday was just too easy; 70 yards offhand at a standing broadside target isn't much of a challenge, but the meat will probably taste just as good as last year's shot; a left-handed one on a running buck, from a tree stand.

B.L.E. · November 20, 2012, 10:58 PM

I managed to shoot this target in the men's offhand 25 yard match during the TMLRA fall shoot in October with a .50 caliber muzzleloader shooting patched roundballs. Sights were micrometer adjustable aperature sights.

The four shots in bullseyes number 1,3,4,&5 would have been one ragged hole if this match was shot at a single bull. A good group but a so-so score.

Naturally, my best shot was in the sighter/practice bull.

darkgael · November 21, 2012, 05:09 PM

BLE: Nice. What was the gun and the load? What brand sight?

B.L.E. · November 21, 2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgael

BLE: Nice. What was the gun and the load? What brand sight?

Well, let's just say it's not your average muzzleloader and one of those that must not be spoken of in Hawg Hagen's "Black Powder Times" forum.

Douglas barrel, slow twist for roundball.
Timney trigger
Lyman sights
Weight about 11 pounds, legal for light benchrest and crosstick matches.
About as fancy as it gets without getting into false muzzles.

Hornady .495 roundballs and .020 Teflon coated cotton duck patches.
80 grains Swiss FFg.

November 13, 2012, 01:24 AM	#1
jimmythegeek Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2011 Location: Seattle Posts: 216	I can't out-shoot bullseye shooters Tonight I was making up for a lost weekend (lost to working) and went to a 50' indoor range nearby. I was practicing prone until my neck went out and I worked off-hand. The other 4 guys there were Bullseye shooters. On the same target, slow fire, with a pretty accurate rifle I scored about an 80, I think. Hoo, boy I need practice. I can catch myself flinching or jerking the trigger, lots of bad habits. Now, these are guys who have been working at their craft a long time, but still. Maybe I can blame their optics.... __________________ "Jeez, man, what's another word for 'stupid?'" "Tactical." -Tom Servo Marlin 795, 795ss, 39A Mountie, CZ-455 American, CZ-452 Scout, CZ-75 Kadet, AOM160 M1 Carbine, USGI M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, Dan Wesson PM7 1911

November 13, 2012, 02:58 AM	#2
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Yea I feel your pain . I just started shooting for real accuracy in the last year or so . Everytime I think I'm pretty good somebody in the lane next to me puts me in my place . They will bring in there target and it will be one raggid hole or something . I just think I still got alot of work to do . I also see the other side as well . I've been shooting and here a guy calling out shots for his buddy .The guy can't shoot a group if his life depended on it and I think how is that posible your only 50 yards away with a scope . It takes real discipline and many shots down range to get uber accurate . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

November 13, 2012, 11:12 AM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	OK, practice, and get good with Bullseye, then to keep your head from getting too big, so shoot with some International Shooters. I think the OP started out with rifle and this drifted to pistols....It doesn't matter. I'm a HP shooter. When I was in Alaska it got a bit nippy for shooting outside so I took up indoor small bore in the winter to keep in shape. I would get pretty good, and COCKY, then I'd enter a match with some college kids. Those kids from the U of A, made it look like I was throwing rocks. You don't get better by shooting with average shooters that you can outshoot, you get better by trying to beat the great shooters. An example: When I first hired on with the Anchorage Police Dept. I didn't shoot my service revolver as well as I would like. We had an indoor range so every night after shift, I'd challenge one of my friends who was dern good with his revolver. We shot for coffee and I bought a lot of coffee. I didn't give up, and eventually he was buying my coffee. I think its called SETTING GOALS. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

November 13, 2012, 11:46 AM	#7
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	I had a standing challenge to my students. A steak dinner if they could out shoot me on any single target in a match. They set their goal and kept me honest. One dinner in 5 years wasn't to bad and I was glad to do it. If you aren't pushed by somebody you have no reason to stay sharp or get sharper. Humble is when they put you on a relay with the national men and women champions on either side of you. Then he coached me because I asked for it and took what I learned back to my students. It is all good. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

November 13, 2012, 12:48 PM	#9
pgdion Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2010 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 1,214	Scouts usually shoot 50' small bore, no scopes. I always offer up the challenge that I will buy a pop for anyone who beats my score. It keeps the scouts focused on trying and keeps me focused too. I buy a pop once in a while which is good. Some of our scouts are getting really good at shooting. We have a couple of Sharpshooters and 1 working towards Expert. I think it helps having a couple of leaders in our Troop that are enthusiasts. __________________ 597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!

November 13, 2012, 06:00 AM	#3
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	50 feet is child's play to someone who shoots one-handed slow fire at 50 yards (and timed/rapid fire at 25 yards).

November 13, 2012, 07:42 AM	#4
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I to those who routinely shoot high 90's or 100's in bullseye pistol.

November 13, 2012, 09:25 AM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	It's easier to blame the tool(s). .

November 13, 2012, 04:20 PM	#10
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Gunwriters will advise to buy new equipment, expensive esoteric reloading equipment, it quite clear from the magazines: you can compensate for poor shooting skills by buying things. But in the real world, nothing beats practice. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

November 13, 2012, 07:22 PM	#11
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Old Grump just said something that really hits home - in that you won't get better unless you are pushed. That is so true, and not just in shooting.

November 13, 2012, 08:16 PM	#12
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	Try different manufactuers of ammo and determine which one your gun likes to eat. They don't all have the same point of impact. It's a tedious and time consuming process, but worth it. Good Luck!

November 16, 2012, 01:52 AM	#13
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	ex wife used to shoot standing cigarettes (butts wedged into a crack in a stump) in half with my rifles. Didnt seem to make much diffference which rifle. One shot to see placement (intentionally a bit low) and the the second would make the cigarette disappear. This at 100yds. Everyone who knows her calls her Kathy Oakley. Oh well, some of us have the talent and the rest of us wish we did. I do ok, but I am one of those wishers. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 17, 2012, 01:12 AM	#15
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Most of them are custom mausers __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 17, 2012, 11:51 AM	#17
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Of course these rifles are scoped. Fact is, that most rifles are a lot more accurate than their shooters. Inability to get close groups is usually the shooters fault and not that of the firearm or the ammunition. I will lay you odds that if your rifle were to be attached to a bench or heavy platform and you were able to see the results, you would be amazed. The point being that some have and incredible talent. Larson could keep a can in the air with a bolt action rifle without sights (watched the man do it when I was a kid), Knapp is no slouch with a shotgun, and there are others. Known and unknown. All of these shooters have a natural talent. You can only train to your ability. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 19, 2012, 11:38 PM	#18
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Anyone can become a better shooter, up until they can't. You won't know where and when that happens until you get there. There are some pretty impressive Senior scores in High Power. So I have a lot of hope that I can continue to improve for a few more decades. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 20, 2012, 06:58 AM	#20
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	What gets me a lot, both in pistol and rifle offhand shooting is miss anxiety induced flinching or "the yips". When this happens, I can flinch with a .22. It's not the recoil and noise, it's yanking the trigger while the sights are on the X while I am getting tireder and tireder holding the aim. It starts with "chicken finger" where you can't get yourself to increase pressure on the trigger because when you do, it seems to turn on some sort of magnet that repels the bullseye, then you start getting tired and you want to get the shot over with and BANG!!!, another bullet hole in the white part of the target.

November 20, 2012, 10:18 AM	#21
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	Yes this ^^^

November 20, 2012, 07:38 PM	#22
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	I'm clearly on the way down in my shooting. I've made some pretty nice shots over the years, winning lots of matches and turkey shoots. I still can shoot offhand pretty well, but am not quite as good as I was five years ago. This week, I was fortunate enough to kill a grouse by hitting it in the head at 35+ yards with my .270 Win, as it walked along ahead of me on a snowmobile trail. That made my day. The deer I killed yesterday was just too easy; 70 yards offhand at a standing broadside target isn't much of a challenge, but the meat will probably taste just as good as last year's shot; a left-handed one on a running buck, from a tree stand.

November 20, 2012, 10:58 PM	#23
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I managed to shoot this target in the men's offhand 25 yard match during the TMLRA fall shoot in October with a .50 caliber muzzleloader shooting patched roundballs. Sights were micrometer adjustable aperature sights. The four shots in bullseyes number 1,3,4,&5 would have been one ragged hole if this match was shot at a single bull. A good group but a so-so score. Naturally, my best shot was in the sighter/practice bull.

November 21, 2012, 05:09 PM	#24
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Ml BLE: Nice. What was the gun and the load? What brand sight? __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

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