.38Spec/.357 question

[overkill0084]

I was looking to build some warmish to +p .38 special loads on .357 magnum brass. I was planning to use AA#5 w/ a 158 LSWC. Any pitfalls using .357 brass w/ hot .38 loads? The only issue I can think of is that it will lower pressures due to larger case capacity, a non-problem as I see it.
I figured to start with around 5.5gr and work up to around 6.0gr (Still under max for +p .38 special), possibly higher (Max +P is 6.2).
I want to use .357 brass so there is no way these will ever accidently find their way into one of the snubbies. I'm looking for a load that I can fire rapidly yet will still have a bit of knockdown at the receiving end. The gun is an 8" Python, if that helps.
On a side note, is anyone aware as to whether 2400 might work for this type of load or is it too mild? How low can you safely go with 2400? I have some 14.0 2400 (Lee 2nd edition shows 13.9 as starting) loads that are still a bit more than I was looking for, for this use.
There just seems to be a lot of gap from where .38 spec. ends and where .357 magnum picks up. Any experienced insight would be appreciated.

[GP100man]

Well ,the more pressure ya take off of 2400 the dirtier it gets .I`d stay with the fast to mid burnin powders aa5 will fill the bill fine , although there are less position sensitive powders available , CLAYS & UNIVERSAL clays, WW231/HP-38 & IMR 700X

The beauty of building +p loads in 357 cases is you have alot of versatility & pressure range to work with & ya won`t have to clean the dredded crude ring !!

If a shooter reloads & owns a 357 I bet a $ against a donut that they have some midrange loads ready to go to the range !!!

[mikejonestkd]

I use win 231 for my mid range loads in .357 cases, they are in the 38 special +P range and it works very well. 6.5 grains under a 158 gr swc is warm but not too hot to handle, and generally does not lead the barrel. bullseye is another good choice too, although I find it to be a bit dirty.

[zxcvbob]

Unique, Herco, or (surprise) Bullseye would be good choices for the vast area between .357 Magnum and .38 Special. There's probably nothing wrong with AA#5 either, I just haven't used it. You can use .38 Super load data as a guide to get you in the ballpark.

Blue Dot, AA#7, and 2400 are too slow in my opinion to load down to .38 Special-ish.

[Qtiphky]

I loaded some 125 XTP for my wifes 38 with 5.4 grains of Unique that were pretty stout out of her gun. They were the starting loads from the manual, but one of the gurus from here said that they are actually +p loads. They were very comfortable out of my S&W 66-1 and accurate as well.

[overkill0084]

I have Unique on hand, I bought AA#5 to replace it, burn rates are very close. It's easier for me to throw accurate charges with AA#5. Truthfully I hadn't really considered Bullseye, I use it for my light .38 loads and I like it in my 9mm & .380. I tend to steer away from it for warmer loads, more room for error with a slower powder.

[Doodlebugger45]

I use W231 for my mild loads. I almost always use .357 brass even for mild loads. I just don't like to bother with the little .38 cases. Just another container to keep up with and perhaps deal with the carbon buildup in front of the throats.

Anyway, I have been using 4.6 or 4.7 gr of 231 with a 158 gr hard cast bullet for plinking. At that charge level, it burns pretty cleanly and gives very good accuracy and extremely mild recoil. You can go to higher charges if you want, but that one works for me. I also had some decent results using Tite Group but I don't remember the charge weight offhand now. It seems like it was a similar weight to the 231 load, somewhere in that 4.5 gr range, but you'll have to figure that one out your ownself.

Sorry, I have never used AA 5.

[Clark]

The 38 sp case has a shorter web, and shorter body.
These two measurements tend to cancel each other out in terms of case capacity.

The capacity, is still a little bit smaller than the 357 mag cases.

I once shortened some 357 mag cases for hot loads in a 38 Special. I told Randy Ketchum, and he asked, "Why? The 38 special case is plenty strong."
I suddenly realized how stupid I had been.
The 38 special case head is much stronger than the 270 case head which is registered at 65kpsi.
The 38sp and 357 mag will get their cases stuck in a revolver at less than 50kpsi.

I have stopped using 38 sp brass in 38 sp revolvers. I ream out the 38 specials to 357 mag and use 357 mag brass and 357 mag loads.

The exception would be my 357 mag, which I can only load to 38 special loadings, because of the poor job of cutting the chamber at Rossi.
Ironic, isn't it?

[Taroman]

As was said, keep away from the slower powders for this job. For my .357s, I have two mild 158 LSWC loads:

5.5 gr Universal gives 1129 f/s in my 4" S&W 681. Very accurate.

6.9 gr Unique gave 878 f/s.

I prefer the Universal load. a very pleasant range load.

[crowbeaner]

Use the Speer 158 LSWCHP and 11.0 of 2400 in the magnum case. Standard primers and a good firm crimp. This will basically duplicate the FBI 38 +P+ load.

[AlaskaMike]

I agree with the comments that it would be better to use the faster powders instead of 2400. My light .357 loads are as follows:

(all in .357 mag brass with 150 - 158 grain cast SWCs)
5.0 gr. W231
7.0 gr. Unique
8.0 gr. Power Pistol

All are very nice, but the Power Pistol load may be more than you're looking for. I got 1186 fps with that load from my 4" S&W model 28. You can reduce that one to 6.5 or 7 grains safely.

The 231 load would be the one I'd recommend. With only 5 grains of powder it's very economical, and was quite accurate for me in my gun with either Lyman 358477 or RCBS 38-150-SWC (both are 158 grain SWCs). If it's too light you can work up to at least 6.0 grains safely.

Naturally you should verify my loads with authoritative data, but you have already found that there is a huge area virtually ignored by the companies producing load data. You might try looking at manuals that have cowboy load data. Such loads would be a little lighter than what I posted above, but it would give you a sense for good minimum loads.

Good luck.

[joneb]

I was looking to build some warmish to +p .38 special loads on .357 magnum brass. I was planning to use AA#5 w/ a 158 LSWC

I've had very good results with AA#5 and 158gr LSWCs in .357 Mag.
I have 2005 Accurate data for .357 Mag.
158 LSWC
CCI 500
8.1-9.0gr of AA#5
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301882

[wpcexpert]

I use TightGroup for my target loads in my .357. I also load Tight Group for all my .38 Specials. It seems to have a consistent spread accross the range of the calibers. 4.3gr starting 38 Special and 7.5gr max for .357. The .357, 7.5gr loads are great out of a GP100. Enough "pop" to know you are shooting a 357, but w/out the thump.

The 5gr in the .38 special out of the same gun feel like...well nothing.

I'm looking for a load that I can fire rapidly yet will still have a bit of knockdown at the receiving end. The gun is an 8" Python, if that helps.

I think out of your 8in Python, you could go with the 7.5 gr and you would have very little muzzle jump.

Oh, my bullets aren't but 125gr pills at 1480ish fps. So the max would be much lower with the 158gr LSWC. Hodgdon says 5gr Tight Group Max @ 1108fps for 158gr LSWC.

[357 Terms]

I use Universal because I can use it in all the calibers I load, also it burns VERY clean. 7grns with a 125grn bullet gives me about 1150fps outa my 6.5 Blackhawk and about 1050 outa my snubbies

[3leggeddog]

I've used A#5 for both the 38 special + .357, I like it very well ,it meters great. For my target loads I run lswc of 105 gr. + 150 gr lswc.
For the 105 I use 4.5 gr of #5 , this did surprise me how light the recoil was and still was accurate.
For the 150gr lswc 5.1 to 5.3 gave very good accuracy. I have a Ruger GP100 SS 6" I don't need magnum loads to kill paper at 50 feet!

A warm load for the 38/.357 ,try 5.6 to 5.7 gr of A#5 with the 150gr lswc it works well for the .357 too.Just remember I'm using a 357 revolver.

[WESHOOT2]

Use appropriate data for the specific cartridge.

[overkill0084]

First, thanks to everyone for all the inputs. I finally made it to the range to test some loads.
I decided to try some mild 2400 loads (8.0 through 10.0 gr.) 10.0 gr w/ 158 gr LSWC worked well and was developing enough pressure that unburned powder was minimal. Very accurate as well. FWIW, above 9.5 unburned powder is starting to clear up.
I worked up some loads w/ AA#5 as well. The range I worked with was from 5.8 to 6.6 gr in .2 increments. They all shot well, but 6.6 was crazy accurate. 10 shots (Really), 1 hole at 10 yards. Noticeably the best (though all worked well). On the spectrum, it falls just above .38+p but well under .357. It feels reasonably powerful, but no leading with the Missouri bullets (time to order more.) It should be a nice bowling pin load.