Colt Police Positive Special - Page 2

BlueTrain · June 17, 2010, 11:01 AM

Well, I've heard of it, just never seen one and I'll bet not many others have either. You might call it a non-starter or something. In a way, it was a development of a trend in hot small bore cartridges for revolvers that seemed to have a limited degree of popularity in the 1940s and 1950s, most of which might be called wildcats. The .22 Kay-chuck was another. I don't think there's anything like that in revolvers today. These days extra big-bores get more interest but come to think of it, there are a couple around at the moment. How different are they?

Another thing that seems to have come and gone is the practice of putting long relief telescopes on revolvers, something those hot little revolvers might have benefited from. I gather there must have been a relative abundance of war surplus German telescopes that were mounted in the original scout-rifle format.

The Colt PPS is a charming little revolver and I once owned one. It shows up a lot in old movies, no doubt why I wanted one. They are a nice size, too, and I've seen several excellent examples. For shooting, however, they seem extra stiff, because of the hand that gives it that rigid lock-up, if you can describe it that way.

**Mike Irwin** · June 17, 2010, 12:38 PM

The closest thing to the Harvey Kay Chuk out today are the Taurus revolvers chambered in .22 Hornet. IIRC the Kay Chuk used the .22 Hornet case as its origin.

The Kay Chuk had a fairly straight body and sharp shoulder, but it kept pressures pretty low compared to the Jet or the .256 Win Mag.

BlueTrain · June 17, 2010, 01:19 PM

I think it is worth mentioning that the Police Positive Special was made relatively recently, as was the Official Police, although the barrel was changed to a sort of underlug style and I think different grips were used. They had nothing of the look of their predecessors even if the mechanism was the same. I suppose my comment is another example of someone not wanting Colt to make anything new, but for a while there we were all anxious to see what the latest thing from S&W was going to be, even though they, too, were just the same inside, more or less, until the internal lock came along.

ronl · June 23, 2010, 05:27 PM

I took my Mom out to shoot the little thing and it is absolutely sweet. I put three shots in less than 1" at 15 yds and I can't shoot pistols very well at all because my eyesight is not very good. Well, for $200 I think it was definitely worth it. Even my Mom, who has NEVER shot a gun before, did well with it. Absolutely no recoil at all. Perfect match for my Mom. Now if I could just find a .38 Special cylinder for it.

Johnny Guest · June 24, 2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronl

Now if I could just find a .38 Special cylinder for it.

ronl, are you aware that the .38 S&W cartridge uses a bullet slightly larger (.361") than the .357" .38 Special bullet?

Many handloaders load the .38 S&W with Spl bullets, with varying degrees of success. With a tight .38 S&W bore, and the use of soft Spl bullets, a good degree of accuracy may be possible. The smaller bullet "slugs out," or obturates to fill the larger bore. On the other hand, using hard bullets at low pressures does not allow the bullet base to expand and fill the bore very well. If one is satisfied with a self-defense arrangement of marginal accuracy, with say, a four inch group at 20 FEET (not yards,) then that might be okay.

I haven't priced Colt revolver cylinders in the past 20 years, but I doubt you could buy one in .38SPL and have it installed for under $150. Colt cylinders are NOT "drop-in" parts; they must be fitted by a knowledgeable 'smith. This doesn't even factor in the time, effort, and telephone charges necessary to locate such a cylinder available for purchase.

ronl, it's your revolver, your money, and your Mom, and I wouldn't essay to tell you what to do. I simply submit that it'd be more economical to sell or trade off that neat little revolver and obtain one originally built in .38 SPL. ALSO, take this into account: You've commented on how soft-shooting it is, and how easy your Mom handles it. That will change greatly with more powerful .38 SPL ammo, especially if you jump right up to +P loads. Might the elderly lady be better off with a less powerful revolver that she can shoot pretty well?

Oh, and one final consideration: It might be reasonable to expect that a Police Positive Special, in a non-standard caliber, with foreign proof marks, could have some significant collector interest. I believe that occasional practice firing with factory ammo or gentle handloads, with prompt and careful cleaning would not harm this little revolver. And a 72-year-old woman would be unlikely to subject it to a lot of wear and tear.

I think it likely that you'll get this piece back some time in the next couple of decades, and it could only have risen in value during that time. UNLESS, that is, unless you've modified it so as to destroy any collector value.

Again, your choice. Good luck to you.
Johnny

James K · June 25, 2010, 01:35 PM

It might be considered that if the woman has fired the .38 S&W and can hit with it, going to the .38 Special could actually be counterproductive, especially if "hot" loads are to be used. Nothing will ruin a beginner's gun skill faster than a lot of noise and blast.

(One odd thing: Everyone claims that .38 S&W is weak and useless, but no one seems to want to test that by being shot with one.)

Jim

SIGSHR · June 25, 2010, 06:03 PM

Only real drawback to the 38 S&W is that at present it is a very out fashion round, hence the only factory ammunition available is the 146 grain RNL, unless you find sone old UK ammo with the 173 grain FMJ. On the Revolver Forum one board member described his tests of the 38 S&W, checking penetration, etc. Yes, no one wants to stand in front of one and as Elmer Kieth might say, not his first choice but sure beats your fists.

June 17, 2010, 11:01 AM	#26
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Well, I've heard of it, just never seen one and I'll bet not many others have either. You might call it a non-starter or something. In a way, it was a development of a trend in hot small bore cartridges for revolvers that seemed to have a limited degree of popularity in the 1940s and 1950s, most of which might be called wildcats. The .22 Kay-chuck was another. I don't think there's anything like that in revolvers today. These days extra big-bores get more interest but come to think of it, there are a couple around at the moment. How different are they? Another thing that seems to have come and gone is the practice of putting long relief telescopes on revolvers, something those hot little revolvers might have benefited from. I gather there must have been a relative abundance of war surplus German telescopes that were mounted in the original scout-rifle format. The Colt PPS is a charming little revolver and I once owned one. It shows up a lot in old movies, no doubt why I wanted one. They are a nice size, too, and I've seen several excellent examples. For shooting, however, they seem extra stiff, because of the hand that gives it that rigid lock-up, if you can describe it that way. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 17, 2010, 12:38 PM	#27
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	The closest thing to the Harvey Kay Chuk out today are the Taurus revolvers chambered in .22 Hornet. IIRC the Kay Chuk used the .22 Hornet case as its origin. The Kay Chuk had a fairly straight body and sharp shoulder, but it kept pressures pretty low compared to the Jet or the .256 Win Mag. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 17, 2010, 01:19 PM	#28
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I think it is worth mentioning that the Police Positive Special was made relatively recently, as was the Official Police, although the barrel was changed to a sort of underlug style and I think different grips were used. They had nothing of the look of their predecessors even if the mechanism was the same. I suppose my comment is another example of someone not wanting Colt to make anything new, but for a while there we were all anxious to see what the latest thing from S&W was going to be, even though they, too, were just the same inside, more or less, until the internal lock came along. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 23, 2010, 05:27 PM	#29
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	I took my Mom out to shoot the little thing and it is absolutely sweet. I put three shots in less than 1" at 15 yds and I can't shoot pistols very well at all because my eyesight is not very good. Well, for $200 I think it was definitely worth it. Even my Mom, who has NEVER shot a gun before, did well with it. Absolutely no recoil at all. Perfect match for my Mom. Now if I could just find a .38 Special cylinder for it.

June 25, 2010, 01:35 PM	#31
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It might be considered that if the woman has fired the .38 S&W and can hit with it, going to the .38 Special could actually be counterproductive, especially if "hot" loads are to be used. Nothing will ruin a beginner's gun skill faster than a lot of noise and blast. (One odd thing: Everyone claims that .38 S&W is weak and useless, but no one seems to want to test that by being shot with one.) Jim

June 25, 2010, 06:03 PM	#32
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Only real drawback to the 38 S&W is that at present it is a very out fashion round, hence the only factory ammunition available is the 146 grain RNL, unless you find sone old UK ammo with the 173 grain FMJ. On the Revolver Forum one board member described his tests of the 38 S&W, checking penetration, etc. Yes, no one wants to stand in front of one and as Elmer Kieth might say, not his first choice but sure beats your fists.