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Old November 28, 2006, 01:34 PM   #51
oldbillthundercheif
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Location: New Orleans
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Quote:
"Which really seems a shame, frankly, since those who don't even carry or who wouldn't shoot should fend for themselves out there in the REAL world on their unarmed/misinformed/naive own, and not benefit from that general deterrent the rest of us "more violent mindset people" help make."
Gunkid?

Once a criminal, always a criminal, I guess...
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Old November 28, 2006, 03:24 PM   #52
BillCA
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King,

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chin0
We all have to agree on those two points you have said, very similar to what I have said.
Yes it is. However I thought it was worth pointing out explicitly, not only for the benefit of new members but any visitors/trolls/etc to the site.

A BG breaking into my vehicle might see me with a gun in hand, but the sight of an angry, pudgy fifty-something in his BVD's might be more frightening than the gun.

Cloudcroft,
Quote:
We do whatever we want to do. The guy on the scene of the incident is the one who makes the call, not anyone else.
Well, almost. I'll admit that my instinctive responses are tempered by legal constraints and (especially in Kalifornia) attitudes of government employees. But you are correct when you say the guy on the scene makes the call.

Quote:
If criminals -- in this case thieves stealing one's property -- knew beforehand who would shoot and who would not to protect "only property," they'd pick places like yours or poster markj's to rob.
I think you misunderstand me. A thief who, say, enters my garage to take something and flees when confronted is not going to get a bullet in the behind as he runs. Nor will the thief who surrenders and obeys my commands until the local PD arrives. However the guy who doesn't stand still or attacks is likely to get perforated, rapidly and repeatedly.
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Old November 28, 2006, 03:51 PM   #53
Capp35
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Here in Texas, the law states that you can shoot for criminal trespassing and/or conduct on your property.

I am not saying I would kill (in Texas it would not be murder) a punk for trying to steal my car. But I would carry my gun outside for self defense and try to stop them.

I have heard of people going outside and just yelling at a punk and being killed or wounded.
I am not just going to sit inside and watch them trash my car and/or house!

The worst part would be telling your story to the Grand Jury. (If it got that far)
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Old November 28, 2006, 06:02 PM   #54
Jager1
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Tayta_Mayne,

I understand. My perception of your intent was incorrect and I apologize. Further, you were successful in your attempt in thwarting the would-be thief. I need to learn to stifle myself better when it comes to my idiotic urge to argue with something THAT WORKED, no matter how much it unnerves me.

Just don't get yourself hurt or killed out there. We need you here!

I have confronted criminals stupidly more than a few times in the past.

Like the would be carjacker/mugger in Baltimore that approached my car window at a stoplight at a deserted intersection in the early morning hours. I sat there holding a .38 Special on him from inside the car and insisted upon arguing with him about him getting away from my car rather than simply driving through the red light! After some 10-15 seconds, I finally gassed it and left him there. My 'training' to not run a red light was stronger than my common sense.

Or the burglar than came crawling through my bedroom window after midnight. In my stupor, I grabbed a shotgun (that I had not a single round for in the entire house rather than the 38 Special I had loaded under the bed) to confront him with.

There are more. And no-one will ever be more critical of my defective thinking in those incidents than myself.

I thank God for the opportunities to change.

And a healthy prayer goes out to your friend.

Cloudcroft:
Quote:
We do whatever we want to do. The guy on the scene of the incident is the one who makes the call, not anyone else.
Thank you for concisely saying what I was unable to.
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Old December 1, 2006, 12:14 PM   #55
DVC9
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T .M. Thankfully everything turned out OK.

If this was a forum about "being the victim of criminal activity" or some such then I tend to think you might have felt more vindicated.

Since the purpose of this forum is to address issues concerning firearms and often their use in self defense it only follows that your tactics would be scrutinized (rightly or wrongly) by the readers.

Do I disagree with the way you handled the situation??

Well I guess you can't argue with success.

Conversely though, I would submit that you were Lucky...

Having taught defensive tactics for a couple decades now, I feel confident in saying that you could have handled it in a more tactically sound manner.

There are a number of points that could be debated, but one begs for attention.

You stated that the perp was 45 feet away, and then you moved closer toward him.

You also mention you closed the locked door behind you, eliminating, your primary means of egress as well as access to weapon,phone, protection of cover etc.

Now I assume you are familiar with the Tueller drill...

If your adversary had produced a Big F-ing Knife and charged you, how many seconds would it have taken for you to
*react,
*retrace your steps,
*Unlock the door,
* Enter the building and Lock the door.

Now what if he had a gun instead of a knife??

Most all of us have allowed our Testosterone levels to affect our common sense at one time or another and often in spite of Training to the contrary.

Unfortunately though Bluster, Bravado, and Indignation clouded judgement may not always work.

As I mentioned there are a number of points that could be argued concerning the whole incident, but many of those points have been made by others already. Jager1 comes to mind.

I would hope for your sake that if the situation was repeated that this experience would give you pause to consider an alternative method of handling it.

Just something for you to consider.

Good day Sir, Mick
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Old December 14, 2006, 03:17 AM   #56
Tayta_Mayne
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Sorry I havent been on lately. My computer was down. Mick I have stated everything that i could about what happened. I told you he Threw down his screwdriver kinda like, "lets do this". Oh and also, I never said 45' I said 15. I dont care that you judge my actions bud. I Already stated I beleive three times now that i put this here to see what you guys would have done. I never once even saide what did i do wrong. Then out of no where I get smacked with a bunch of what seems to be to me keyboard cammando crap. I have made my peice with the one that I needed to on this thread. And now i am leaving it and this section for a while. It seems to be going downhill. Oh and i didnt mean to single anyone out with that at all. I mean in general all the threads in this section always get taken over.
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Old December 14, 2006, 06:58 AM   #57
DVC9
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T.M.

Sorry you are feeling ganged up on. Can't speak for others but that was not my intent personally.

Since you chose to clarify your statement and indicate that the gap was actually 15 not 45, then I would submit to you that you have proved the point I was making.

You could not have possibly retreated through your locked door before the average perp closed that distance and climbed your frame.

Instead of taking it personally, why not let us thank you for helping us pass along some valuable information.

Things happen everyday to good people, part of the reason these forums exist is to share pertinent info with our peers in the hope that they may benefit from lessons we have learned one way or the other.

Or so I thought...

M
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Old December 14, 2006, 03:02 PM   #58
markj
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Location: Crescent Iowa
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Quote:
It seems to be going downhill.
seems many are in fear of their fellow humans

Years ago I lived over my Dads bar in a apartment, a guy tried to break in, cut himself all up with the window glass. I went down to look see, saw him bleeding all over, he claimed he had a cohort near by. I was unarmed and this was long before cell phones. I sauntered over to a phone, dialed 911 and told them what was going on. Nobody shot me, when I got back to the bar, nobody was to be found armed or otherwise. I knew the guy and gfave the police his name and where he lived, he was picked up the next day. We had to pay for the window tho.

A few months later I had 2 guys unload their guns at me in front of that very bar, it was in a rough neighborhood. All missed me, the police caught the guys found the guns in the street, let them go as no positive ID from any one cept me. I was carrying that night but didnt pull. Had another episode where a disgruntaled customer went home, got a 10 ga shotgun and shot thru the rear door hitting a few people. Seen a lot of this stuff, but I always remain calm and do not pull unless it is 100% nessasary. I would not show a gun to anyone unless it was right before I pulled the trigger. Only way it should be done. Never had to shoot anyone yet, but it dont mean I have never been in the fray.
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