|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
September 10, 2018, 02:04 AM | #1 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 11, 2018
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 220
|
.378” minus .375” = .003”...or better known as a human hair
As an ammunition collector I was looking at all the Weatherby rounds and came across the fact that they make/made a .375 and a .378 round. I think the .375 is the new and the .378 is the old but I may be wrong. It may be the other way around. Does anyone know why they made one proprietary round so close to another proprietary round?
|
September 10, 2018, 09:41 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,424
|
.378 Weatherby still uses .375" diameter bullets.
They just wanted a number that made it sound bigger, badder, betterer, and most awesomest. .327 Federal is of similar naming convention, with added fluff. .312" diameter bullets, or .32 caliber; with the seven referencing .357 Mag.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
September 11, 2018, 09:08 AM | #3 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
A maybe: To avoid confusion between Weatherby and H&H.
|
September 11, 2018, 04:14 PM | #4 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 11, 2018
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 220
|
Do you have any experience shooting the two rounds FrankenMauser?
|
September 11, 2018, 10:02 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,424
|
Negative.
The only .375 'caliber' rifles I've fired are .375 H&H and .375 Ruger.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
September 12, 2018, 02:42 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
|
The .375 dates from 1944, is based on the .375 H&H and runs $122.99 per 20 from Midway. The .378 is inspired by the .416 Rigby, but not based on it. It dates from 1953 and runs $139.99 per 20.
It is alleged that Roy Weatherby invented the .378 because his .375 wasn't any better than the .375 H&H. As with anything with 'Weatherby' in its name it primarily just costs more. A box of .375 H&H ammo starts at about $60 at Midway. Far greater selection too.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count! |
September 12, 2018, 04:03 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
|
The difference between the 375 Weatherby and the 378 Weatherby is massive, even to inexperienced observers.
* The 375 Weatherby is an improved 375 H&H, so .530" case rim, belted, with a case head diameter of .521", shoulder diameter of .440", and a case length of 2.85", launching a .375" 300 gr bullet at 2,700 fps (a 200 fps gain over the H&H). * The 378 Weatherby is a necked down 460 Weatherby, so the rim diameter is .580", the case head is .582", the shoulder is .560", and the case length is 2.913". It launches a .375" 300 gr bullet at 3,000 fps (about 20% faster than a 375 H&H). Years ago, I got the chance to fire a 378 Weatherby. I owned a 375 H&H at the time, so I thought no big deal. All I can say is WOW. If you ever wanted a 375 H&H to look puny, hold it your hand next to a 378 Weatherby. The 378 Weatherby is 20% bigger in diameter than the 375. If you ever get the chance to shoot one, there is no similarity.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
September 12, 2018, 05:09 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,808
|
This sort of thing isn't uncommon. When S&W came out with the 38 Special it actually fired a 35 caliber bullet. But they chose to measure the case diameter instead of bullet diameter to give buyers the appearance they were buying a larger caliber gun. The 44 mag actually fires a .429 bullet. The 257 Rigby and 7X57 are the same identical cartridge, the British just called it 257 Rigby while everyone else called it 7X57.
There are no rules for naming cartridges. The inventor can call it anything they want.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill |
September 12, 2018, 07:24 PM | #9 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,833
|
Quote:
however, there are some more or less standard conventions that are usually followed. One is that the number in the cartridge name have some relationship to the caliber of the bore, but need not be the exact diameter or the bullet used. In the early days of pistol rounds, (revolvers are pistols, too..) the .38s were actually .38 caliber bullets. Rounds were loaded with heel type bullets (like .22LR still is today) where the widest part of the bullet is the same diameter as the case, and there is a smaller diameter "heel" of the bullet inside the case. When this changed to inside lubricated bullets the widest part of the bullet was inside the case, and of course, in order to fit, a smaller diameter. With the lead bullets of the time, the smaller diameter of the "new" bullets didn't matter much, as the lead would upset in the bore and seal well enough for accuracy. Over time, the actual bore diameter dimensions were reduced to match the bullets, but the original caliber names were kept. Which is why .38s are actually shooting .36 (.358"" diameter bullets. Another convention is using bore diameter measurements (not bullet diameter) in the cartridge name. All the common .300s and .308s use the same diameter bullets (.308) just .300s are named for the land to land bore diameter, while .308 is the measurement groove to groove. As to something like the .275 Rigby, its the English measurement of 7mm (.284") minus groove diameter, changed from the actual .276" measurement for market appeal (.275 was thought to be more appealing to the buying public than .276) Another convention is using a name that includes the parent case, such as 7mm-08 (a 7mm bullet in a necked down .308Win case) or .22-250 (a .22 made from the .250 Savage case). However, on the other side of the pond, they do it just the opposite way, putting the parent case name first. .577/450 Martini, .450/400 Jefferries, etc. There are other "rules" that are generally followed, and then there are a host of exceptions.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
September 12, 2018, 07:28 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
|
A .50 BMG projectile starts out as .510" diameter, but is .0500 by the end of the barrel.
__________________
Cave illos in guns et backhoes |
September 12, 2018, 09:56 PM | #11 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,986
|
Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
September 12, 2018, 11:31 PM | #12 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
||
September 16, 2018, 02:59 PM | #13 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 11, 2018
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 220
|
Well there’s a lot of good info in all of your responses. I got into this group because I’m tired of Facebook but I wish I could “like” the posts I’ve seen in here like one can in FB.
|
September 16, 2018, 11:33 PM | #14 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
Maybe the diameter of the lands of a .50 BMG is 0.50"; I dunno.
But groove diameter = bore diameter and is 0.511"--which is the bullet diameter. But enough OT for one day, okay? Back to .375/.378. |
September 19, 2018, 08:34 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 1,380
|
I've had 4, 375H&Hs and one 378 Whby. I bought 378 about 5th hand. Everyone
thought they wanted it until they owned it. I know rifle didn't have 100rds total when I got rid of it. The recoil didn't run me of it was accuracy. I bought dies and fooled with it all summer. It would not touch my old Sako 375H&H for accuracy. The 700 Rem outshot it. I had a post 64 m70 that was about the same as far as accuracy, but Whby was a slick and pretty rifle. I've never shot a 375 Ruger only #1 in 375H&H and I have a couple #3s in 375 Win. Only because I need them for Ohio deer season. |
September 19, 2018, 09:09 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,609
|
Just to add fuel to the fire...
340 Weatherby 330 Dakota Both .338
__________________
When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope... |
September 19, 2018, 09:22 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 6,165
|
I have a 375 Weatherby. It is not quite a 378 Wby but if you use the old load data, its definitely a huge improvement over the H&H.
|
September 19, 2018, 09:25 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 6,165
|
Quote:
|
|
September 19, 2018, 10:09 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 514
|
And I use 32acp and HR mag pills in my 7.65 arg Mauser reloads. 310s don't work, 312s are great
A human hair indeed |
September 19, 2018, 10:52 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
The first use of a .338" bullet I know of is the .33 WCF, ca 1902 in Winchester 1886 lever action.
I think the .378 Wby predates the .460. Case is pretty much a belted .416 Rigby. Before the resurgence, the only source of Boxer .416 was by turning the belt off Weatherby brass. |
September 19, 2018, 11:36 PM | #21 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,986
|
Quote:
22-250 220 Swift 222 Remington 223 Remington 224 TTH 224 Valkyrie 5.56 NATO All the same bullet diameter.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
September 20, 2018, 11:37 AM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
In the .22 field, I like to point out that advertising has given us the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester, all shooting .224" diameter bullets.
But the .22 Jet, .22 Hornet (early), and .22 Savage don't. |
September 20, 2018, 04:59 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,424
|
Quote:
Along with the .22 Savage (aka .22 Hi Power, aka 5.6×52mmR), you've got the .230 Ackley. It's .220 Swift AI loaded with a .228" bullet, in order to skirt caliber restrictions for big game hunting in Utah and Wyoming. (Whether or not a .224" or .228" groove diameter was used could be debatable. I don't recall if Ackley specified, but he was definitely not opposed to firing slightly over-sized bullets through smaller groove diameters.)
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
|
September 20, 2018, 07:58 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
I thought .230 Ackley was a true .23.
He had his own line of bullets. |
September 20, 2018, 09:31 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,424
|
You're correct. I remembered incorrectly.
It wasn't based on the .220 Swift, either (I think I got that from tales told by my father at the reloading bench). It was a shortened .30-06. I checked Ackley's Handbook (Vol 1), and it does specify ".23 caliber" multiple times, with special-order bullets listed as available from Fred Barnes or Sisk. I couldn't find a better reference to groove diameter, though. It may have been .230", or the slightly more logical .236" (already established, to some degree).
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
|
|