How much is too much for Hodgon HP-38?

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 09:17 AM

I a, new to reloading. I a Lee Classic Turret Press and will be loading 9mm, 45 ACP and .38 Spl. I am looking to load mainly light to mid rounds for the range. From my research Win 231/HP-38 is a good powder for this application.

There is no powder anywhere in my local area. I missed the Win 231 and HP-38 at Cabelas but with the Hazmat fee and shipping it was going to be pricey for the 1 lbs anyway.

There is a shop about and hour away which has some 8lb jugs for $189. If I talked to Brownells the other day and with backorders it will be a long time before it is for sale there "off the shelf". Midway has no idea. Natchez does not know either. Even if it comes back into stock there I am still looking at $175+ depending on the vendor. The chance of finding it on the shelf cheaper is not good.

I know it is a bit high but with so little powder available in my area + the cost of shipping should I pull the trigger or just wait since things are getting better?

hanno · February 12, 2015, 09:29 AM

Only you can decide how much you are willing to pay or if you are willing to put off reloading until you can find a better price. For reference though, last week I bought an 8 lb jug of Win 231 at a gun shop for $130. There are still honest gun shops out there.

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 09:32 AM

This place is not trying to rip people off as much as he is trying to get powder to grow his new business. I am pretty sure he is buying it off the shelve somewhere else and marking it up so he has something on his shelves. Hard to sell people equipment if you cannot sell them powder to go with it.

He knows the price is high. He and I talked and he joked he would not want to pay that much but it is what it is in this market.

The more I think about it the more I think I am going to wait. I have enough ammo to shoot. It is not like I have to start reloading or buy new ammo.

I just want to start the process and work on the press.

serf 'rett · February 12, 2015, 12:02 PM

For perspective sake:

On 12/12/2011 I bought 8# of Winchester 231 from Powder Valley for $133.97, with prorated shipping and Hazmat included.

On 8/20/2014, I bought 3 pounds of Hodgdon HP-38 from the local gun store for a total of $81.34 tax included.

The second purchase, from the local gun store, is somewhat in line with your store's pricing when you add tax to your $189.00.

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 12:29 PM

Yeah I think it is high but not out of the realm.

Nick_C_S · February 12, 2015, 12:55 PM

Not to sound overly philosophical, but it really is up to you and how much you're willing to pay.

Keep your eyes open on gunbot and the retail sites. W231/HP-38 (Hodgdon HP-38 is the exact same powder - right down to the lot number - confirmed) is an excellent powder for your stated application, btw. It is also among the most desired pistol powders ever. So demand is strong. Alliant Bullseye, Accurate Arms #2 (AA2) are good substitutes. Bullseye seems to be easier to get than W231; but it doesn't run as clean as W231. AA2 is excellent stuff; but I haven't seen any at all in almost two years. Right now, W231 seems easier to get than AA2.

Keep in mind, when you purchase on line and pay a hazmat fee, that fee is charged per order - not per pound or container. So the more you purchase, the more the hazmat fee is amortized across your order. Most people who purchase on line buy at least 4lbs at a time. And don't worry about buying a bunch of W231/HP-38 only to find you don't like it. Everybody likes W231. It's excellent powder. You will use it.

mikld · February 12, 2015, 01:17 PM

Personally, I don't think I'd pay that much, unless I was totally out of any/all pistol powder. I understand the feller selling it wants to attract customers to his shop, and make a profit, but that alone wouldn't bring me in. Now if he sold it at his cost, well then mebbe...

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 01:23 PM

I think he is charging enough to cover his transportation cost. Anyway if I head that way this weekend I might check it out.

Gravedigger56 · February 12, 2015, 01:53 PM

Sounds like a fair price. I just paid $24.50 per lb. for 231, $24 for Titegroup and $28 for Clays.

Hunter Customs · February 12, 2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

There is a shop about and hour away which has some 8lb jugs for $189.

Well by the time you figure hazmat plus shipping charges I don't believe he's gouging anyone at $189 for an 8 pound jug, not like some out there that's wanting double retail.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

Jim Watson · February 12, 2015, 02:16 PM

That is $23.63 a pound, which is a darned good price these days.

I don't know if Hanno's store is honest or dumb at $16.25 a lb.

hanno · February 12, 2015, 03:24 PM

Jim,

My store is honest.

During the great primer shortage a few years back, this shop always had primers and continued charging the same pre-shortage price. Other gun shops in the area raised their prices $10+ per thousand. They were buying their primers from my gun shop, I know this for a fact.

The day before Christmas, I bought an 8 lb jug of Bullseye for $125, A 8 lb jug of Red Dot cost the same. That comes out to $15.62 a lb. The Win 231 is a bit higher at $130.

I discussed the prices with the owner the last trip ( I had stopped at Cabela's and saw their prices). The owner said his father always told him" You can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin it once."

Anyway the shop is well know in the local area for honest dealings. When I ran the shooting sports program for our local Boy Scout camp, we bought our supplies there even though it was a bit of a drive. The shop has been there a long time and seems to be doing well. If they raised their prices, their customers would know there was a good reason.

I might pay $190 for an 8 lb jug if I had no other choice but that is not the case.

rmelton · February 12, 2015, 06:37 PM

Bass Pro online has HP-38, Unique and Trail Boss

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 06:40 PM

Well lucky me I did not have to pay $189 for HP-38. I ended up finding it in stock at Widener's for $134.40!

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail....ir=278|283|311

It is still in stock in 8lb jugs limit of 2. I picked up 2 and about 5,000 primers, a mix of small and large since I am loading 9MM, 38 Spl and 45 ACP.

I got out at $140 per 8lb jug.

To say that I am happy would be a huge understatement! $17.50 is a great price in 2015!

It is still available so if you are in the market you might want to jump on it. Even if you are only getting one 8lb jug it will be around $170 depending on shipping for one 8lb.

That is still $21 a lb. If you can go for 2 it is it will be around $158 so you get down under $20. Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the original post.

Hunter Customs · February 12, 2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

I discussed the prices with the owner the last trip ( I had stopped at Cabela's and saw their prices). The owner said his father always told him" You can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin it once."

It sounds like the owner had a very wise and fair father.
He done well to take his fathers advice.

Makes me think of when the AR scare hit and many were gouging customers by tripling the price on the rifles they had in inventory.
Not me, mine stayed at the same old price I always had them marked at.
I sold all six of mine in one week, sold one to a member of this Forum.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Bass Pro online has HP-38, Unique and Trail Boss

http://www.basspro.com/Hodgdon-Shotg...duct/10214942/

It is back ordered there and is $28 lb. At that price I would have been better off at the semi local.

Nick_C_S · February 12, 2015, 06:52 PM

Well done.

If you need any loading info or pointers, we're all here.

Load safe.

WVsig · February 12, 2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Well done.

If you need any loading info or pointers, we're all here.

Load safe.

Thanks I am going to take it nice and slow. I have a buddy who have been loading for over 25 years who I am going to lean on a bit for info but I am sure I am going to be asking some questions here!

RickB · February 12, 2015, 07:22 PM

That price doesn't seem especially unreasonable. When I was buying 231/Hp-38, fifteen years ago, I think it was $15/lb?
I'd value being able to walk into a store and buy something off the shelf, when I wanted/needed it, so $189 in the hand might be better than $134 in the bush, if you don't know if or when the latter might be delivered.
I know guys who've had handloading components on back order for a year, or two.

Average Joe · February 12, 2015, 07:57 PM

I just paid 21.95 for a one pound bottle of W231. They only had the one pounders, otherwise I would have bought an 8 pounder. About $130 sounds right for 8 pounds.

mboylan · February 17, 2015, 11:34 PM

You can store up to 20 pounds of powder without a powder magazine. If you do decide to store more than 20 pounds in your house without a magazine, it will void your homeowners insurance if there is a fire.

Waldog · February 18, 2015, 10:28 AM

Here in thE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF KOMMIEFORNIA, Last week I paid $30.99 @ pound for HP-38

It's the first HP-38 I have seen in nearly 2 years. LGS said that powder had been on back order for over 12 months. When they got their shipment, it was TWO pounds of HP-38.

skizzums · February 18, 2015, 12:16 PM

I pay as high as 28$ these days. I guess I would pay even more if I had to since it goes such a long way in 38 and 9mm. It's the rifle powders I have issue with paying that much for since it pretty much takes all the savings out of reloading.

Navistar · February 18, 2015, 12:33 PM

I keep looking all over the interwebs at the stores you guys suggest and its hard to find these prices you guys speak of. To even break even with Cabelas I have to buy 8lb jugs and to see a savings after high shipping and hazmat, you need to buy 16lbs. I am willing to do so if anything ever stays online long enough to purchase.

Long story short, I bought HP-38 at Cabelas today for $22.99/lb. They also had a shelf full of Win231 for 25.99 but all of you say they are very similar in metering so i went with cheapest.

hanno · February 18, 2015, 12:40 PM

Navistar, you did okay.

Quote:

Long story short, I bought HP-38 at Cabelas today for $22.99/lb. They also had a shelf full of Win231 for 25.99 but all of you say they are very similar in metering so i went with cheapest.

They aren't very similar in metering, they are identical. Win 231 and HP-38 are the exact same powder and always have been. You would have gotten the "Winchester" name on the bottle for the extra $3, nothing more.

February 12, 2015, 09:17 AM	#1
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	How much is too much for Hodgon HP-38? I a, new to reloading. I a Lee Classic Turret Press and will be loading 9mm, 45 ACP and .38 Spl. I am looking to load mainly light to mid rounds for the range. From my research Win 231/HP-38 is a good powder for this application. There is no powder anywhere in my local area. I missed the Win 231 and HP-38 at Cabelas but with the Hazmat fee and shipping it was going to be pricey for the 1 lbs anyway. There is a shop about and hour away which has some 8lb jugs for $189. If I talked to Brownells the other day and with backorders it will be a long time before it is for sale there "off the shelf". Midway has no idea. Natchez does not know either. Even if it comes back into stock there I am still looking at $175+ depending on the vendor. The chance of finding it on the shelf cheaper is not good. I know it is a bit high but with so little powder available in my area + the cost of shipping should I pull the trigger or just wait since things are getting better? __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle Last edited by WVsig; February 12, 2015 at 09:29 AM.

February 12, 2015, 09:32 AM	#3
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	This place is not trying to rip people off as much as he is trying to get powder to grow his new business. I am pretty sure he is buying it off the shelve somewhere else and marking it up so he has something on his shelves. Hard to sell people equipment if you cannot sell them powder to go with it. He knows the price is high. He and I talked and he joked he would not want to pay that much but it is what it is in this market. The more I think about it the more I think I am going to wait. I have enough ammo to shoot. It is not like I have to start reloading or buy new ammo. I just want to start the process and work on the press. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 12, 2015, 12:02 PM	#4
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	For perspective sake: On 12/12/2011 I bought 8# of Winchester 231 from Powder Valley for $133.97, with prorated shipping and Hazmat included. On 8/20/2014, I bought 3 pounds of Hodgdon HP-38 from the local gun store for a total of $81.34 tax included. The second purchase, from the local gun store, is somewhat in line with your store's pricing when you add tax to your $189.00. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

February 12, 2015, 12:29 PM	#5
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Yeah I think it is high but not out of the realm. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 12, 2015, 12:55 PM	#6
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	Not to sound overly philosophical, but it really is up to you and how much you're willing to pay. Keep your eyes open on gunbot and the retail sites. W231/HP-38 (Hodgdon HP-38 is the exact same powder - right down to the lot number - confirmed) is an excellent powder for your stated application, btw. It is also among the most desired pistol powders ever. So demand is strong. Alliant Bullseye, Accurate Arms #2 (AA2) are good substitutes. Bullseye seems to be easier to get than W231; but it doesn't run as clean as W231. AA2 is excellent stuff; but I haven't seen any at all in almost two years. Right now, W231 seems easier to get than AA2. Keep in mind, when you purchase on line and pay a hazmat fee, that fee is charged per order - not per pound or container. So the more you purchase, the more the hazmat fee is amortized across your order. Most people who purchase on line buy at least 4lbs at a time. And don't worry about buying a bunch of W231/HP-38 only to find you don't like it. Everybody likes W231. It's excellent powder. You will use it. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 12, 2015, 09:29 AM	#2
hanno Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 394	Only you can decide how much you are willing to pay or if you are willing to put off reloading until you can find a better price. For reference though, last week I bought an 8 lb jug of Win 231 at a gun shop for $130. There are still honest gun shops out there.

February 12, 2015, 01:17 PM	#7
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Personally, I don't think I'd pay that much, unless I was totally out of any/all pistol powder. I understand the feller selling it wants to attract customers to his shop, and make a profit, but that alone wouldn't bring me in. Now if he sold it at his cost, well then mebbe... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 12, 2015, 01:23 PM	#8
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	I think he is charging enough to cover his transportation cost. Anyway if I head that way this weekend I might check it out. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 12, 2015, 01:53 PM	#9
Gravedigger56 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 125	Sounds like a fair price. I just paid $24.50 per lb. for 231, $24 for Titegroup and $28 for Clays.

February 12, 2015, 02:16 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	That is $23.63 a pound, which is a darned good price these days. I don't know if Hanno's store is honest or dumb at $16.25 a lb.

February 12, 2015, 03:24 PM	#12
hanno Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 394	Jim, My store is honest. During the great primer shortage a few years back, this shop always had primers and continued charging the same pre-shortage price. Other gun shops in the area raised their prices $10+ per thousand. They were buying their primers from my gun shop, I know this for a fact. The day before Christmas, I bought an 8 lb jug of Bullseye for $125, A 8 lb jug of Red Dot cost the same. That comes out to $15.62 a lb. The Win 231 is a bit higher at $130. I discussed the prices with the owner the last trip ( I had stopped at Cabela's and saw their prices). The owner said his father always told him" You can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin it once." Anyway the shop is well know in the local area for honest dealings. When I ran the shooting sports program for our local Boy Scout camp, we bought our supplies there even though it was a bit of a drive. The shop has been there a long time and seems to be doing well. If they raised their prices, their customers would know there was a good reason. I might pay $190 for an 8 lb jug if I had no other choice but that is not the case.

February 12, 2015, 06:37 PM	#13
rmelton Member Join Date: April 11, 2014 Location: Natchez, Ms Posts: 15	Bass Pro online has HP-38, Unique and Trail Boss

February 12, 2015, 06:40 PM	#14
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Well lucky me I did not have to pay $189 for HP-38. I ended up finding it in stock at Widener's for $134.40! https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail....ir=278\|283\|311 It is still in stock in 8lb jugs limit of 2. I picked up 2 and about 5,000 primers, a mix of small and large since I am loading 9MM, 38 Spl and 45 ACP. I got out at $140 per 8lb jug. To say that I am happy would be a huge understatement! $17.50 is a great price in 2015! It is still available so if you are in the market you might want to jump on it. Even if you are only getting one 8lb jug it will be around $170 depending on shipping for one 8lb. That is still $21 a lb. If you can go for 2 it is it will be around $158 so you get down under $20. Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the original post. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 12, 2015, 06:52 PM	#17
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	Well done. If you need any loading info or pointers, we're all here. Load safe. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 12, 2015, 07:22 PM	#19
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	That price doesn't seem especially unreasonable. When I was buying 231/Hp-38, fifteen years ago, I think it was $15/lb? I'd value being able to walk into a store and buy something off the shelf, when I wanted/needed it, so $189 in the hand might be better than $134 in the bush, if you don't know if or when the latter might be delivered. I know guys who've had handloading components on back order for a year, or two.

February 12, 2015, 07:57 PM	#20
Average Joe Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,325	I just paid 21.95 for a one pound bottle of W231. They only had the one pounders, otherwise I would have bought an 8 pounder. About $130 sounds right for 8 pounds.

February 17, 2015, 11:34 PM	#21
mboylan Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Posts: 120	You can store up to 20 pounds of powder without a powder magazine. If you do decide to store more than 20 pounds in your house without a magazine, it will void your homeowners insurance if there is a fire.

February 18, 2015, 10:28 AM	#22
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	Here in thE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF KOMMIEFORNIA, Last week I paid $30.99 @ pound for HP-38 It's the first HP-38 I have seen in nearly 2 years. LGS said that powder had been on back order for over 12 months. When they got their shipment, it was TWO pounds of HP-38. __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

February 18, 2015, 12:16 PM	#23
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I pay as high as 28$ these days. I guess I would pay even more if I had to since it goes such a long way in 38 and 9mm. It's the rifle powders I have issue with paying that much for since it pretty much takes all the savings out of reloading. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 18, 2015, 12:33 PM	#24
Navistar Member Join Date: January 27, 2015 Location: Denver CO Posts: 75	I keep looking all over the interwebs at the stores you guys suggest and its hard to find these prices you guys speak of. To even break even with Cabelas I have to buy 8lb jugs and to see a savings after high shipping and hazmat, you need to buy 16lbs. I am willing to do so if anything ever stays online long enough to purchase. Long story short, I bought HP-38 at Cabelas today for $22.99/lb. They also had a shelf full of Win231 for 25.99 but all of you say they are very similar in metering so i went with cheapest.

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