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Old December 14, 2014, 12:09 AM   #1
skizzums
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need help with rings

i really like my Nikon p 229 2-peice scope mount on my AR15. I was hoping to just swap them onto my nagant scope mount and possibly get a one piece for the AR. but apparently I don't now anything about a weaver style mount. the just don't work at all, I cant even see a way to easily machine the rings to fit and use a smaller base screw. was hoping you guys could turn me onto a similar set of rings as the p series that'll fit the weaver style. I am looking to spend sub 75$.


another question, my buddy who owns my MGS said he would order me a vortex crossfire II 6-18x for 200 cash including tax. he is a nice guy and usually hooks me up with good deals, he just gave me the vanguard bi-pod with a price tage of 120$ for 65$, so I trust him. but how to you fell about the scope, going on a finn nagant with a archangel , wanting to hit gongs out to 600yards. I have no experience with vortex at all, much less the crossfire 2 or the v-plex retilce. I want whatever reticle is best for punching paper from 100 - 600.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...ex-moa-reticle

but I am most concerned about the rings, I am pretty bummed I cant use the same ones, so wants something very similar with the flush allen screws like the p series. or a way to use the same rings



thanks for any help
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Old December 14, 2014, 01:57 AM   #2
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after doing some more research on rings and mounts, I may have my terminology incorrect. so I need to know what I am looking for, wheat kind of scope mount does a mount like this accept. "weaver" not only being a brand name, but looks as it though it would accept on picatinny rails just like the AR, so I guess I just don't know what this mount is called, it just has four thin slots spaced about 1" apart or so. standard cheapo rings seems to work fine, but I was hoping to find a mount similar to the p series or PEPR style than would mount to this base. I am sure I could just make mods if needed, but I am sure their are products out there that will fill me need.

thanks again.

if you could just tell me what this style of mount is technically called, I could find my own, although still open to suggestions for something good


btw, of course all my rings fit just fine,but really wanted to put on a mounting "system"
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Old December 14, 2014, 03:24 AM   #3
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Looks like you have a Weaver type rail and Picatinny spec rings.
If the rail is aluminum, it wouldn't take much work with a file to widen two of the cross slots.
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Old December 14, 2014, 03:46 AM   #4
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its not the slots that are the problem, its the actual base it too wide. is this not considered a "dovetail" mount?

I am researching and seeing a lot of dovetail to weaver/pic conversion rails.
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Old December 14, 2014, 12:54 PM   #5
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The problem is all those names are used interchangeably by many, when there are slight dimensional differences

I suspect what you need is the Picatinny rings and base

I'd send Nikon an E Mail and see if they can recommend a base that will allow you to use those rings
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Old December 14, 2014, 01:25 PM   #6
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Good idea. I'll give that a try
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Old December 14, 2014, 05:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Compatibility with Picatinny[edit]
Military standard, MIL-STD-1913 "Picatinny rails" date from the mid 1990s and have very strict dimension and tolerance standards. The Picatinny has rail of very similar profile to the Weaver, but the slot width is 0.206 in (5.23 mm), and by contrast with the Weaver, the spacing of slot centers is consistent, at 0.394 in (10.01 mm). Many rail-grabber-mounted accessories can be used on either type of rail, and generally accessories designed for a Weaver system will generally fit Picatinny rails - although not vice versa. The Picatinny locking slot width is 0.206 in (5.232 mm) and the spacing of slot centers is 0.394 in (10.008 mm).[2]

Because of this, with devices that use only one locking slot, Weaver devices will fit on Picatinny rails, but Picatinny devices will not always fit on Weaver rails.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_rail_mount
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Old December 14, 2014, 07:52 PM   #8
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The Nikon rings are supposed to be made to Picatinny specs, and this pair fits the Picatinny rail on the AR.
The OP states that the problem here is not the cross bolt, which is what keeps Picatinny from fitting on Weaver.
So, it sounds like a tight ring and a wide base that don't fit together.
skizzums, are you sure you want rings that high on the Mosin?
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Old December 15, 2014, 08:43 PM   #9
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the problem is, the base is too wide for the rings to fit onto, I need the type of rings that clamp onto the rail, or I need to machine the rail thinner. I will just probably buy some regular rings. out of curiosity, what would be the problem with high mount on a mosin? also, what are some good rings, I see them anywhere from 5$ to 150 just for rings that all look the same. I was thinking :millet: since thy seem middle of the road in price.
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Old December 16, 2014, 12:53 AM   #10
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A rail with slots is a Picatinny rail which serves as the scope mount base. As explained by Snyper the dimensions of a Picatinny rail and a similar rail by different manufacturers aren't necessarily identical.

The rail is not a dovetail base. A dovetail base requires a dovetail ring that is inserted in the base and rotated 90 degrees so the scope will be parallel to the bore.
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Old December 16, 2014, 01:00 AM   #11
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thanks for that clarification, I understand now.

I started a new thread just to get some ring recommendations and help with choosing a height and stuff. if you have any suggestions and what the different types of rings offer, I would appreciate some guidance

here's the new thread,
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555832

thanks
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Old December 16, 2014, 01:07 AM   #12
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I'll look at your new thread tomorrow - OOPs, I mean much later today.
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:29 AM   #13
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This says Picatinny rail slots are 0.206" while Weaver rail slots are 0.180"
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...he_Difference_

I just took 4 ATI Mosin Nagant rails of a wide range of ages and they are between 0.152" and 0.159" wide in the slots.

I just pulled out (4) pairs of 30mm tactical rings from various source and tried to make them fit on the ATI rails and measured the cross bar:

0.185" does not fit
0.184" does not fit
0.187" does not fit
0.136" does fit [Weaver 48335 tactical]

I pulled out (4) pairs of 1" rings that are not tactical from various sources and tried to make them fit and measured the cross bar:

0.133" does fit
0.131" does fit
0.137" does fit [Burris Z ring needed bolt removed and ring slid on from the end of the rail]
0.126" does fit
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Old December 16, 2014, 11:48 AM   #14
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Most shooters like to mount scopes low on bolt-action rifles, but as long as the stock fits the shooter and the scope lines up comfortably, there is no real disadvantage to higher rings. Rings meant for AR's are usually .5" to .75" higher than other rings.
Some people don't like Millet rings because they could be installed wrong. I have used them with no problems at all.
Weaver redesigned the Grand Slam rings recently. I have not used the new ones, but they look good to me.
The Burris Zee ring would probably not fit on a wide rail.
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Old December 16, 2014, 01:41 PM   #15
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thank much clark. guess I will just try several kinds that i like and return what I can't use. my mount seems to be machined incorrectly, its not the ATI mount, its a cheap knock-off and it appears to be machined too wide. the grooves aren't the problem or I would just switch out the bolts. I may machine the rail to normal spec or just find something that works. thanks again

since this is going to have a benchrest type stock on it, I was hoping for higher rings, I will probably go with middle height.
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