A Little Help From You Remington New Model Experts?

joejeweler · March 14, 2009, 09:11 PM

I posted an inquiry on the "Curious & Relics" a few days ago that unfortunately, has not recieved an answer yet. (possibly should have posted it here or in general discussion first?)

I was asking about a highly engraved Remington New Model Revolver i picked up recently, and i have included MANY detailed photos to garner some knowledgable oppinions.

The thread link is below, and i will include just one of the pics here to possibly wet your appetites and hopefully get a few comments on it. Thanks!

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=344506

pohill · March 14, 2009, 09:19 PM

Wow. That is one unique revolver, one of a kind for sure. Did you run the serial number to see when it was made? I see several inspector's marks.
There's a B on the side of the frame and maybe on the cylinder, and the C and possibly a T under the grips. And another mark under the trigger guard.
That's an amazing find.
So, in 1946, someone engraved an original...cool.
http://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm

check this out: 1946 - 1980
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/engraved

joejeweler · March 14, 2009, 09:28 PM

Hi,....not sure where to look up the serial numbers. And which one? (under the barrel number or the frame number under the grip?)

Sure is purty to look at though,......

I suspect someone might have carried this as a show piece rather than everyday carry. Who knows,......maybe Teddy Roosevelt carried it at a Rough Riders get together?

pohill · March 14, 2009, 09:42 PM

I thought I had a site with Remington #s but it was Colt.
There must be a way to trace some of those serial numbers.
I have the B on an antique revolver I own.
I wonder if it was factory engraved in 1946?

joejeweler · March 14, 2009, 09:59 PM

I suspect the name and date was added on or about 1946,......possibly as a gift to that individual,..... or maybe to identify it for some protection in case it was lost or stolen.

pohill · March 14, 2009, 10:16 PM

That is a puzzle. Was it engraved when it was made in the 1860s, or in 1946? Who was Edward Farrens? Someone out there must know.
Peter Falk, pick up your phone.
Anyways, that is one great piece of history.
What state did you buy it in? Don't tell me Maine...

joejeweler · March 14, 2009, 11:17 PM

I did look up on google the name,.....and came up with "James Edward Farrens",......but he was born in 1970 so possible a son or grandson. It was under a military family tree however.......

.......nothing i could find for Edward Farrens though......

The name engraving appears like a simpler engraving,......not very deep and probably from a small rotating carbide ball. (like on a flexable shaft machine). Far different than from the main engraving covering the rest of the gun. And i'm assuming it was done around 1946.......

BTW,.....not Maine,.....i bought it in Saugerties, New York. Someone i was talking to recently at the mall is coming over to look at it on Sunday. Might be sold for a quick flip if all goes well,.............as i don't collect antique guns.

joejeweler · March 15, 2009, 08:31 PM

Geeze pohill,.....thanks for your imput,....

.......... i finally realized what you might have been trying to tell me when you asked if i had purchased the Remington New Model in Maine.

I did a google search today and found a short report of a major theft and partial recovery of an antique gun collection in Maine! ( i had noticed my original detailed post in the curio forum was locked from me editing it, so i thought something was up).

Appears to me some on the forum suspect i may have purchased a hot pistola!

BTW,.....i did run both the serial number under the barrel, and the one on the frame under the left grip thru the database below,........and it had not been reported as stolen on that site.

http://www.hotgunz.com/index.php

Bummer.......anyway,...... i refused to sell the pistol when the gentlemen came by today to buy it. He was pi$$ed,.......i just told him i changed my mind. Didn't want him to get in any trouble thru no fault of his own. Seems that's where i might be now myself.

It would have been nice if somone had let me know directly what was going on. I haven't been active in guns for over 20 years,.......guess i thought gun folk were still a friendly bunch.

Jim Watson · March 15, 2009, 09:38 PM

D.W. King was the founder of the King Gunsight Company, which was in operation in 1946. The front sight is obviously a King's. The rear is a fixed sight installed rather like a King's adjustable. Rough construction indicates it is shop made, not a factory item.

The New Model Remington went out of manufacture in 1875 and accurate cap and ball reproductions were not readily available until the 1960s for the Civil War Centennial.

I conclude that the gun is an original Remington refurbished with reblue, engraving, gold wash, and more visible sights for Mr Farrens. Maybe he just wanted a pretty gun for the then-obscure sport of black powder shooting. Maybe it was a presentation from his club or company. It ain't original.

joejeweler · March 15, 2009, 09:46 PM

Thanks Jim,.....i was almost certain it was an original New Model, but with heavy outside of factory modifications. The rear sight has quite a few casting pit flaws indicating what you described,......rough(but functional) construction.

Here's a better view of the pits.....

.......whether i get to keep it or not,.......is another question?

pohill · March 15, 2009, 11:11 PM

joejeweler, I can honestly say that I did not ask you where you bought it because of a theft in Maine...not at all. I had never heard of that theft (I live in MA). I asked because I buy my guns at a store in Maine, the Kittery Trading Post. I stop in a few times a month and look for unusual guns, and I thought that maybe I missed that one (I've missed a few). Really, that's the only reason I asked. If I did know about the theft, and thought that gun might be one of them, I would have sent you a private message. And, truthfully, I doubt if anyone else on this forum or any other forum that I know of had heard of that theft.

joejeweler · March 15, 2009, 11:16 PM

Thanks for that pohill,......honestly,......i feel better about it now.

........ the mods have nonetheless taken away the editing option from my original 3 posts on the curio thread,.......so i can't think of any other reason except someone is looking into it.

pohill · March 15, 2009, 11:19 PM

The only antique gun theft I can find in Maine was in 2002. Cripes, I have some antiques I've bought in ME & NH, too.

joejeweler · March 15, 2009, 11:28 PM

Here's the brief article,.....but no date mentioned so it could be old. Anybody remember seeing this before? I went to the bangor news sight and did a search,.....but couln't find the original article.

Quote:

State police recover $250,000 in stolen antiques
OAKLAND — Maine State Police recovered more than $250,000 worth of antique guns and other items Friday from a storage building here that allegedly were stolen from a home in Warren. State police Detective Robin Parker said the stolen property includes dozens of guns dating from the Revolutionary and Civil wars, the Morning Sentinel reported. Other items include antique gunpowder flasks, pots, storage trunks, arrowheads, books, baskets and other collectibles. Police declined to identify whom the property was stolen from, or when the theft occurred. The loot recovered Friday is only a portion of what was stolen. “The total loss to the victim is going to be between $400,000 and $500,000, probably,” Parker said. Police said the victim and her late husband had been collecting the items for more than 35 years. Some of the guns are worth more than $30,000 each. Some of the stolen items began surfacing last December in auction houses and on the Internet. Some stolen firearms were sold to gun dealers and others have been tracked to points in Maryland and Connecticut.
“Some of the things have not only left the state, but left the country already, so some things will be unrecoverable,” Parker said. Parker said the owner of the property at one point told him she didn’t think she would ever see the stolen items again. He said many of the items had sentimental value for her and her husband, who had collected them in preparation for their retirement. State police Lt. Dale Lancaster said detectives have suspects in the case, but no charges have been filed. “We have two prime suspects that have been cooperative up to this point of the investigation,” Lancaster said.
http://www.bangornews.com/

http://www.museum-security.org/02/088.html

pohill · March 15, 2009, 11:31 PM

That's the one I saw. It was dated July 16, 2002.

joejeweler · March 15, 2009, 11:38 PM

That's pretty old,........i thought it might be more recent than that. Maybe i'm worrying for nothing.............

arcticap · March 17, 2009, 01:28 AM

All of our posts here usually do lose the option to edit them after a few days so there's nothing unusual about that.

joejeweler · March 17, 2009, 09:23 AM

I didn't know that,......on all the other forums i frequent (guitar, "Gold is Money", and knife forums) editing priviledges remain in force forever. Thanks for the heads up.......

March 14, 2009, 09:11 PM	#1
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	A Little Help From You Remington New Model Experts? I posted an inquiry on the "Curious & Relics" a few days ago that unfortunately, has not recieved an answer yet. (possibly should have posted it here or in general discussion first?) I was asking about a highly engraved Remington New Model Revolver i picked up recently, and i have included MANY detailed photos to garner some knowledgable oppinions. The thread link is below, and i will include just one of the pics here to possibly wet your appetites and hopefully get a few comments on it. Thanks! http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=344506

March 14, 2009, 09:19 PM	#2
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	Wow. That is one unique revolver, one of a kind for sure. Did you run the serial number to see when it was made? I see several inspector's marks. There's a B on the side of the frame and maybe on the cylinder, and the C and possibly a T under the grips. And another mark under the trigger guard. That's an amazing find. So, in 1946, someone engraved an original...cool. http://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm check this out: 1946 - 1980 http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/engraved Last edited by pohill; March 14, 2009 at 09:32 PM.

March 14, 2009, 11:17 PM	#7
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	I did look up on google the name,.....and came up with "James Edward Farrens",......but he was born in 1970 so possible a son or grandson. It was under a military family tree however....... .......nothing i could find for Edward Farrens though...... The name engraving appears like a simpler engraving,......not very deep and probably from a small rotating carbide ball. (like on a flexable shaft machine). Far different than from the main engraving covering the rest of the gun. And i'm assuming it was done around 1946....... BTW,.....not Maine,.....i bought it in Saugerties, New York. Someone i was talking to recently at the mall is coming over to look at it on Sunday. Might be sold for a quick flip if all goes well,.............as i don't collect antique guns. Last edited by joejeweler; March 17, 2009 at 08:40 PM.

March 15, 2009, 08:31 PM	#8
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	Geeze pohill,.....thanks for your imput,.... .......... i finally realized what you might have been trying to tell me when you asked if i had purchased the Remington New Model in Maine. I did a google search today and found a short report of a major theft and partial recovery of an antique gun collection in Maine! ( i had noticed my original detailed post in the curio forum was locked from me editing it, so i thought something was up). Appears to me some on the forum suspect i may have purchased a hot pistola! BTW,.....i did run both the serial number under the barrel, and the one on the frame under the left grip thru the database below,........and it had not been reported as stolen on that site. http://www.hotgunz.com/index.php Bummer.......anyway,...... i refused to sell the pistol when the gentlemen came by today to buy it. He was pi$$ed,.......i just told him i changed my mind. Didn't want him to get in any trouble thru no fault of his own. Seems that's where i might be now myself. It would have been nice if somone had let me know directly what was going on. I haven't been active in guns for over 20 years,.......guess i thought gun folk were still a friendly bunch. Last edited by joejeweler; March 15, 2009 at 09:01 PM.

March 15, 2009, 09:46 PM	#10
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	Thanks Jim,.....i was almost certain it was an original New Model, but with heavy outside of factory modifications. The rear sight has quite a few casting pit flaws indicating what you described,......rough(but functional) construction. Here's a better view of the pits..... .......whether i get to keep it or not,.......is another question? Last edited by joejeweler; March 15, 2009 at 10:11 PM.

March 14, 2009, 09:28 PM	#3
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	Hi,....not sure where to look up the serial numbers. And which one? (under the barrel number or the frame number under the grip?) Sure is purty to look at though,...... I suspect someone might have carried this as a show piece rather than everyday carry. Who knows,......maybe Teddy Roosevelt carried it at a Rough Riders get together?

March 14, 2009, 09:42 PM	#4
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I thought I had a site with Remington #s but it was Colt. There must be a way to trace some of those serial numbers. I have the B on an antique revolver I own. I wonder if it was factory engraved in 1946?

March 14, 2009, 09:59 PM	#5
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	I suspect the name and date was added on or about 1946,......possibly as a gift to that individual,..... or maybe to identify it for some protection in case it was lost or stolen.

March 14, 2009, 10:16 PM	#6
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	That is a puzzle. Was it engraved when it was made in the 1860s, or in 1946? Who was Edward Farrens? Someone out there must know. Peter Falk, pick up your phone. Anyways, that is one great piece of history. What state did you buy it in? Don't tell me Maine...

March 15, 2009, 09:38 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	D.W. King was the founder of the King Gunsight Company, which was in operation in 1946. The front sight is obviously a King's. The rear is a fixed sight installed rather like a King's adjustable. Rough construction indicates it is shop made, not a factory item. The New Model Remington went out of manufacture in 1875 and accurate cap and ball reproductions were not readily available until the 1960s for the Civil War Centennial. I conclude that the gun is an original Remington refurbished with reblue, engraving, gold wash, and more visible sights for Mr Farrens. Maybe he just wanted a pretty gun for the then-obscure sport of black powder shooting. Maybe it was a presentation from his club or company. It ain't original.

March 15, 2009, 11:11 PM	#11
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	joejeweler, I can honestly say that I did not ask you where you bought it because of a theft in Maine...not at all. I had never heard of that theft (I live in MA). I asked because I buy my guns at a store in Maine, the Kittery Trading Post. I stop in a few times a month and look for unusual guns, and I thought that maybe I missed that one (I've missed a few). Really, that's the only reason I asked. If I did know about the theft, and thought that gun might be one of them, I would have sent you a private message. And, truthfully, I doubt if anyone else on this forum or any other forum that I know of had heard of that theft.

March 15, 2009, 11:16 PM	#12
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	Thanks for that pohill,......honestly,......i feel better about it now. ........ the mods have nonetheless taken away the editing option from my original 3 posts on the curio thread,.......so i can't think of any other reason except someone is looking into it.

March 15, 2009, 11:19 PM	#13
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	The only antique gun theft I can find in Maine was in 2002. Cripes, I have some antiques I've bought in ME & NH, too.

March 15, 2009, 11:31 PM	#15
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	That's the one I saw. It was dated July 16, 2002.

March 15, 2009, 11:38 PM	#16
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	That's pretty old,........i thought it might be more recent than that. Maybe i'm worrying for nothing.............

March 17, 2009, 01:28 AM	#17
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	All of our posts here usually do lose the option to edit them after a few days so there's nothing unusual about that.

March 17, 2009, 09:23 AM	#18
joejeweler Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Posts: 21	I didn't know that,......on all the other forums i frequent (guitar, "Gold is Money", and knife forums) editing priviledges remain in force forever. Thanks for the heads up.......