LCTP and RCBS lockout die

[Tex S]

I load 380, 9mm, 10mm, and 45 ACP on my LCTP. I have always used a 4 die setup. FL resize, expander, seater, and LFC. I shoot a mixture of jacketed, plated, and cast bullets.

I am considering removing the LFC die and installing a RCBS lockout die for safety purposes. I figure I can just get a light taper crimp by using my seater die.

I’m also thinking this will provide an additional benefit as well. My experience with the FCD has been that it doesn’t operate super smoothly (i.e. it produces vibrations in the press). I believe that this minor “jiggling” has created some issues with repeatable powder throws from my Auto Disk.

What do y’all think?

[higgite]

I started reloading on a LCTP and 4 die set before getting a true progressive. My thought on using an RCBS L/O die on the Lee turret press is money poorly spent. You can look directly into the case to check for powder on the Lee press while setting a bullet on the case mouth. If you don't like the Lee FCD, you might think about buying a different taper crimp die and keep seating and crimping separate. Just a thought.

[F. Guffey]

I will not load on a progressive press without the Lock out die for straight wall cases. If someone puts me on a guilt trip I will consider crimping after all of the rounds are loaded. I know, I am the only reloader that understands the crimp requires a hint of effort. I am of the opinion the crimp on bottle neck cases could be a bad habit and could even go as far as to loosen the bullet.

I was reading an interesting set of instructions yesterday, a manufacturer designed? a bullet seater that measures seating effort in pounds with no mention of tension. And I thought; wait a minute I have tension gages, and then I remembered my tension gages are deflections gages calibrated to pounds, no one else will notice but the instructions indicate .001" deviation is equal to 1 pound.

I have always though reloaders should have started with a bath room scales before they became experts on seating bullets. I wonder if the manufacturer spent much time trying to find a conversion for tensions to pounds?

F. Guffey

[higgite]

I will not load on a progressive press without the Lock out die for straight wall cases.

Me either, but OP isn't asking about using a L/O die on a progressive press.

I know, I am the only reloader that understands the crimp requires a hint of effort.

Mr. Guffey, be happy in the knowledge that you're the only reloader who understands a lot of things that you do and say.

[F. Guffey]

I started reloading on a LCTP and 4 die set before getting a true progressive. My thought on using an RCBS L/O die on the Lee turret press is money poorly spent. You can look directly into the case to check for powder on the Lee press while setting a bullet on the case mouth. If you don't like the Lee FCD, you might think about buying a different taper crimp die and keep seating and crimping separate. Just a thought.

I am the only reloader that weights the components, when finished I weight the loaded ammo. Again, there is nothing entertaining about pulling the trigger without a clue as to what is about to happen.

And then there is that other part' happy? I am thankful,

F. Guffey

[Tex S]

Mr. Guffey, be happy in the knowledge that you're the only reloader who understands a lot of things that you do and say.

I couldn't have said it better.

Mr. Guffey, with all due respect, I find your posts pertaining to this thread to be vague and off topic. Rest assured, my intent is not to be disrespectful, but I literally have no earthly idea as to what you are talking about. Maybe I can't connect the dots, but it doesn't seem like your comments have anything to do with the question at hand.

Progressive presses? Guilt trips? Bottleneck cases? Random instructions that talk about a bullet seater that measures seating effort? Your tool collection? Bathroom scales? I'm not sure where you are going...

At any rate, I would love to hear some understandable input from someone who wants to talk about the RCBS lockout die, the LCTP, and/or the repurcussions of the LFC die causing potentially unnecessary vibrations/chattering in the press, thereby affecting the measured drops thrown by the Lee Auto Disk.

Thanks guys!!!

[RickD1225]

Tex S, you need to get to 1000 posts to get the "Guffey" decoder ring!

[F. Guffey]

Bathroom scales? I'm not sure where you are going...

Bathroom scales will not measure tension, I have never seen a bathroom scale that did not measure in pounds. I have never seen a seater die that measured in tensions, I have never seen a tension conversion to pounds but reloaders are infatuated with neck tension.

I will assume you know what an inline seating die is, if I wanted to know how much effort was required to seat a bullet I could set the inline die on the scales and then seat a bullet, the bathroom scale will not indicate tensions, all of the readings will be in pounds.

One more time, I have deflection gages, I have force gages, I have tension gages, none of my gages measure tensions, all of my gages measure deflections or in pounds. If I choose to measure deflection in pounds I install a deflection on the top of the press and a strain gage between the shell holder and bottom of the ram.
The one thing I can not measure is tension . I have 100 dial indicators that do not measure tensions. Again, I can measure deflection in pounds because that is the way the tool is set up.

And then one day I made a seater, I can not call it a seating die because the tool does not have a body, when seating a bullet I have never seen a tool that allowed seating a bullet with less effort. It could be said the tool had case neck/shoulder support. Anyhow; I was impressed.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

If someone puts me on a guilt trip I will consider crimping after all of the rounds are loaded. I know,

I was visiting Dillon in Chandler, Arizona, I was impressed, they understood every word. I was interested in purchasing the 550 press, they wanted to talk about dies and they made it very clear seating and crimping on the same position was a bad habit. Seems there was something wrong with seating the bullet and crimping while the bullet was moving down, I agreed, I reminded? them Lyman said the same thing back in the '50s. It was about that time I said if I am required to give up my lock out die for a crimp die they can forget about me purchasing their 4 hole press.

Anyhow, Dillon said many reloaders use their press with dies of other manufacturers and it was OK if I used my RCBS, Herter, Pacific, C&H etc. etc. and Lyman, Texan, dies. And Lee dies, I have Lee dies, I do not use them but I have them just in case.

And then there was that day I read on a reloading forum reloaders declaring a reloader must use the same shell holder manufactured by the same company that med the dies. after that there was a plither of rational. It was about that time I said 'WHAT?!'. I was not shocked and or surprised, two die boxes made of paper from C&H while they were in El Monte had the instructions printed on the bottom of the box. The instructions claimed the dies in the box were designed to be used with shell holders that had a height of .125". And I wondered, are these guys so lazy they can not lift the box, turn it over and read the instructions? A lot of those reloaders have not gotten over it yet.

F. Guffey

[Unclenick]

Tex S,

I'm not clear how the lockout die would advantage you in the turret press. Progressive presses will often not let you see powder level without craning your neck or having a special light in place, and because they move the case from station-to-station fairly promptly, they can sometimes cause the powder surface to be sloped up the side of the case, making visual inspection a little less certain to be accurate. So, for the progressives, the lockout die makes good sense. But your turret press won't do those things, so it shouldn't be needed.

The complaint about vibration from the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die is currently mentioned in another thread. I think the problem may have to do with the flare in the case mouth being wider than the carbide ring. If you adjust the seating die's internal crimp shoulder (assuming it has one) to partially remove the mouth flare before the actual crimp is done in the LCFCD, that should cut down or stop that carbide ring interference.

Bullet pull and neck tension are really not on-topic in this thread.

[Metal god]

If you adjust the seating die's internal crimp shoulder (assuming it has one) to partially remove the mouth flare before the actual crimp is done in the LCFCD, that should cut down or stop that carbide ring interference.

Good idea , I'm going to try that . I don't really have an issue with inconsistent powder throws but that bump/jarring really bothers me . Although mine seems more like the whole length of the seated bullet is to fat when using good thick walled cases . It feels like that ring is dragging over a longer distance then just popping over the flared part because I feel it drag backing the case out of the die as well .

[Unclenick]

That may be. A lot of people lube even handgun bullets to go more smoothly through their carbide sizing dies. It should help with the fat bullet rubbing, too, but it adds some wipe-off work at the end.

[Metal god]

So I tried adjusting my 45acp Lee seating die to barely squeeze down the case mouth before using the FCD . That worked out very well . Instead of the rather large jarring every time the cartridge entered the Lee FCD . I now get a light fairly consistent bump that does not vibrate through the whole press .

Thanks for that tip . It seems like a common sense thing to try . I wonder how many years it would have taken me to figure that out on my own .

[Unclenick]

3.2 years. Guess how I know.