Trouble with Bullet Alignment

[jetblueshooter]

I am new to reloading. Using a 5 stage Hornady press reloading 9mm (once fired brass) with Copper Plated Round Nose bullets. I am able to get everything working right, but have one major problem. Sometimes when I place the bullet on the case prior to seating, it sits just fine. Other times, the bullet won't sit right and can fall off. It seems sporadic, some work, some don't. I am using an expander die, but no matter what I do, I keep running into this. Sometimes the bullet gets shaved on one side, or it comes out crooked looking. (using RCBS bullet seater die and separate hornady taper crimp die).

I just ordered a bulge buster setup because I heard that 9mm can get the "glock bulge"... and the die I ordered apparently takes out the taper on the 9mm case as well. Not sure this will do anything.

Anyone heard of this problem... I think it's probably some rookie mistake.

Thanks

[noylj]

I use a 9mm Mak FCD as a 9x19 and 9x21 bulge buster. Works for me.
Bullet alignment:
1) For some, a Lyman M-die helps a lot.
https://www.lymanproducts.com/pistol...panding-m-dies
I never found them of any use, but I seem to have issues getting the results others have.
2) I lost a lot of fine motor skills a few years ago and could not put a 9mm bullet on a case straight/square/coaxial, so I got a Lee Bullet Feeder that I use it manually with a Lee seating die with custom Lee seating insert that fits the bullet so the bullet is aligned. I like the seating stem to NOT touch the bullet meplat and touch the bullet as far down the ogive as possible. Lee does good work.
3) Sometimes, simply using ENOUGH case mouth flare works wonders. Remember, more rounds have been ruined due to insufficient case mouth flare than cases have been saved from using insufficient case mouth flare.
4) Be sure there is minimal to NO shell plate flex. I like to tighten the bolt until the plate won't move and then loosen in increments until the plate just barely move smoothly.

[Aguila Blanca]

Sounds like you should try just a bit more flare.

[std7mag]

I'm with Aguila Blanca on this. Try a touch more flare.

I'd heard of a different type of expander. Can't remember the name of the company.
Perhaps Unclenick remembers & can help with that.

[big al hunter]

I just ordered a bulge buster setup because I heard that 9mm can get the "glock bulge"... and the die I ordered apparently takes out the taper on the 9mm case as well. Not sure this will do anything.

The "Glock Bulge" is near the case head, so the bulge buster would not help this particular issue. But it will fix some feeding/chambering issues. I agree with the folks above, you probably need to increase the flare a bit. I like to set mine so the bullet is a little inside the case mouth when I place it. Especially with cast or plated bullets.

And welcome to the forum!!

[Smoke & Recoil]

I will add since your new to reloading that FLARE and BELL mean the same.

[kilotanker22]

I agree, more flare. If you are using mixed brass some will be thicker or harder and have more spring back when you withdraw the expander.

[BJung]

Off topic - Beware of the Glock bulge when reloading. I'd suggest throwing that one brass away if it shows any signs of thinning at the bulge. I had a kaboom once with my brother's 10mm and my fingers felt like someone took a 2x4 onto my fingers while rested on a table. I thought I could have lost or damaged them because it hurt so much. Be careful.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by jetblueshooter

I just ordered a bulge buster setup because I heard that 9mm can get the "glock bulge"... and the die I ordered apparently takes out the taper on the 9mm case as well. Not sure this will do anything.

What's the make and model of this bulge buster you ordered? The 9mm case is supposed to be tapered, and the chambers ARE tapered, so why anyone would want to remove the taper and make ammo that doesn't conform to industry specifications is a mystery to me. I hope you misunderstood something about what this bulge buster does.

[T. O'Heir]

"...touch more flare..." Yep. It should be just enough for the bullet to sit in unaided. Regardless of the type or shape of bullet.

[Hammerhead]

I'm going against the grain here. It sounds like your bullet seating stem isn't matching up with the bullet profile, causing the bullet to tilt during seating. RCBS makes various stems to match the bullet profile.
A M style expander will help too. With plated bullets very little flare is needed with an M die. The case mouth will hold the bullet straight up.

[Unclenick]

Jetblueshooter,

A Lyman M Die, or their Multi-expander die if you need a powder-through expander, or, if you are willing to spend the money, the best version may be the Redding #96172 Expander. When you look at the image of the gold-colored (titanium nitride coating) end of the Redding expander, you will see a small step just below the flaring portion at the top end of the gold tip. This is a wide spot that make a very short portion of the case just below the mouth slightly wider than the bullet. That small step allows the bullet to set into that space square and upright because the sides are still close enough to bullet size to hold the bullet straight upright.

[jetblueshooter]

Thanks Everyone. Wow, I posted this yesterday and got so many responses. Really appreciate it. So, I am going through the answers and here's what I got so far;

1. Bulge Buster - Sounds like this may or may not help the problem, it might be fixing another issue. Someone asked the spec on this. So, basically I ordered the Lee Bulge Buster kit and a Makarov 9mm die so that it will work. Apparently most folks are using these as a safety precaution to rule out the bulge issues, and running it after a decapping die just to prep cases prior to reloading.

2. More Flare. I will have to go back and give this another try. My experience has been simply that I get good rounds and then all of a sudden, a bad one. So, in the past when I give it more flare, then the bullet just falls into the case with a little push of my thumb. I don't think I can get this to work but will try again.

3. Lyman M die. Thanks for this info, I will read up on this tonight and maybe get one of those and try it out.

4. Alignment issue with bullet seater die. I doubt this because I get other rounds to work. I think that the bullet is not sitting deep enough in the first place.

5. NEW IDEA. So, I went and started looking closely at the case mouths and what I found was that some of them were oval, not round. It's a VERY slight variance, and probably would go crosseyed trying to do identify these while reloading. However, I would assume that the bulge buster would indeed perceive the oval variation as "a bulge" of some kind and true it up.

I'm gonna go check out that Lyman-M and get back here in a bit.

--Update: Just ordered the Redding Premium Expander Die, it was
a little more pricey, was $48. Gonna try a combination of things once
that arrives, stay tuned.

Thanks.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by jetblueshooter

1. Bulge Buster - Sounds like this may or may not help the problem, it might be fixing another issue. Someone asked the spec on this. So, basically I ordered the Lee Bulge Buster kit and a Makarov 9mm die so that it will work.

???

Why would you use a 9mm Makarov die for anything relating to 9mm Luger? The dreaded Glock bulge is just ahead of the extractor recess at the head of the case. 9mm cases are tapered. The SAAMI spec is .3910-.007 at the point where you want to iron out any bulge, tapering to .3800-.007 at the case mouth.

9mm Makarov is also tapered, but not as much. The spec is .3915-.005 at the case head (the bulge location), tapering to .3902-.005 at the case mouth. The Makarov die is larger than 9mm Luger.

That said, there isn't a Lee Bulge Buster for 9mm. From the Lee web site:

** Will only work with the following cases: 380 ACP, 10mm, 40 S&W, 41 AE (Use 40 S&W Factory Crimp Die), 45 ACP, 45 GAP, and 45 Win Mag.

Those are all straight wall cases. The actual die is the Lee factory Crimp die, which has a carbide sizer ring at the base. The crimping stem is removed so the case can be pushed completely through the die. If the sizing ring is tapered (assumption?), then pushing a 9mm Luger case completely through a 9mm Makarov FCD would squeeze everything down to .3902, which is smaller than the case head dimension for 9mm Luger.

5. NEW IDEA. So, I went and started looking closely at the case mouths and what I found was that some of them were oval, not round. It's a VERY slight variance, and probably would go crosseyed trying to do identify these while reloading. However, I would assume that the bulge buster would indeed perceive the oval variation as "a bulge" of some kind and true it up.

Maybe, maybe not. The out-of-round may not be enough to be corrected by the sizing ring. Or the brass may spring back after re-resizing. But because the cases are tapered, the 9mm Makarov die probably doesn't even touch that condition at the case mouth. I think a proper 9mm Luger expander/flaring die would be a better tool for correcting out-of-round.

Before you buy anything, try turning your flaring die down about an eighth to a quarter of a turn.

[stagpanther]

9mm brass isn't very strong and once it starts bulging at the head of the case I usually just toss them (based on experience of having blown more than a few up). They are so cheap it's not worth it IMO.

I'd go with the suggestion of a bit more mouth flare--but you might also want to try lubricating the inside of the case in the area where the bullet will be seating.

[Hammerhead]

With the M die, use less flare. It will create a ridge inside the case mouth that will square upthe base of the bullet. You can feel it when you place the bullet.

[Aguila Blanca]

Re-reading the opening post, it appears that you are using an eclectic mix of dies. Whose dies are you using for the decapping/sizing die, and for the expander/flaring die?

[pete2]

Just got a Uniquetec powder funnel for my Dillon, kind of like the Lyman M or newer RCBS. Look them up. Prolly make one for the Hornady.

[jetblueshooter]

The question was asked on the die brands I'm using. Unfortunately, as you guys probably know almost everything associated with 9mm is sold out, much harder to get.

1. Decapping die - RCBS
2. Expander die - RCBS - ordered the redding premium expander die to replace
3. Power Drop - Default lock-n-load but just ordered the micrometer one to replace
4. Bullet seater die - RCBS
5. Taper crimp -Hornady

Someone asked about the Brass, yes it's mixed but I'm seeing a lot of the same brands in there. In general, I'm gonna go with some of the advices in here that you guys provided and try to give it another run.

I did see that someone mentioned the lube (I have that, the hornady case lube maybe I should try that as well).

Thanks. Stay tuned.

[Aguila Blanca]

Try sorting your brass by headstamp. Different brands have different wall thicknesses, so you could try running one brand at a time, and adjust flare and crimp when you change headstamps.

There's nothing wrong with RCBS dies. I still think all you need may be another eighth or quarter turn down on the expander die stem.

[Nathan]

2. More Flare. I will have to go back and give this another try. My experience has been simply that I get good rounds and then all of a sudden, a bad one. So, in the past when I give it more flare, then the bullet just falls into the case with a little push of my thumb. I don't think I can get this to work but will try again.

That is the classic sign you need more flare! Cases vary in length and thickness. If a short case or thin case comes through your process, blam you will have a tilted round. Add some more flare and then those cases will have enough flare.

Too much flare is a case life issue....well, you pick them up off the ground for free likely, so you might lose a couple to flare...who cares!

It could be over sizing. I that case an M die has a real expander and could help as it will loosen the neck up a bit.

[rodfac]

Try sorting your brass by headstamp. Different brands have different wall thicknesses, so you could try running one brand at a time, and adjust flare and crimp when you change headstamps.

Good advice that will give you more accurate ammunition.

I'll add that most 9mm carbide dies will resize the case to a single dia., virtually eliminating the original taper to some extent. This results in a finished round that has a "waist", just above the canelure, in the case head area. In my experience, this does not affect case life, nor weaken the case assuming you're loading to normal pressures. Over the years, I've used RCBS, Redding, & Dillon carbide 9mm dies, and they all resize as described above.

Lastly, I'll 2nd the advice to use a bit more flare when seating your bullets. Then, when crimping, the goal is to iron out the flare, to a straight case appearance and no more, as the case mouth abutting against the barrel chamber forward edge is critical to correct headspace.

HTH's Rod

[Hammerhead]

Needing more flare is a sign that the bullets are seating crooked.

[cdoc42]

Are there any concerns relating to the bulging cases other than failure to go into battery?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

Are there any concerns relating to the bulging cases other than failure to go into battery?

KABOOM