What do you mean not enough gun?

[zeisloft]

I do not understand the .243 debate. I assume it has gotten a bad rap because it is often put in the hands of a younger, inexperienced shooter, who inturn may not make a clean shot resulting in lost or wounded game. It is not an underpowered round for deer, assuming it is used properly. It is not a 300yd deer gun. Let me point out that I am not a one rifle guy jealous of others who think my gun is wimpy.
I shoot a few mag rifles, but only feel they are necessary for the long ranges shooting (we are talking about deer, not elk, bear, monsters, etc). I no longer own a .243, however I have shot 5 or 6 with the gun before selling it. I have also shot several with a .222 and countless hogs with .222, 22 Hornet, and 22-250. Can someone tell me why the .243 has such a bad rep.
~z

[Bowtier]

I'm with you zeisloft, my dad always uses his mod 7 243 because it's so light & easy to carry. He's killed a pile of deer with it & I can not recall tracking one more than 50 yds. This question has always puzzled me & I jump to the .243's defense everytime, I like 'em.

[HSMITH]

Cheap ammo is responsible for at least part of the bad rap. Too many 'hunters' head down to the sporting goods store and buy whatever is on sale to use on their 'hunt'. Bullet failure is not uncommon using this approach and wounded animals are the result. It isn't a fault of the cartridge, but you know the type of guy that would do something like that isn't going to fess up and aknowledge that he is a hinderpipe.

[Art Eatman]

I've killed near two dozen smaller whitetails with my .243. But, I was really picky about the shots (mostly neck shots), and generally didn't shoot much beyond 150 yards.

I'll take a shot at a running deer with a .30-'06 that I would pass with the .243. I've always felt that if I don't hit where I really want, the '06 creates more tissue damage and blood trail, or penetrates further on a quartering shot than the .243 could do. Same deal for longer shots, in this really wide open country in SW Texas.

I guess I'd say that the .243 is plenty enough gun, most of the time. The '06 is enough gun, all the time.

, Art

[zeisloft]

Good to see some agree. I just assume use a rifle as a scalpel rather than a broad sword provided the outcome is the same.
~z

[Fremmer]

The .243 will kill deer if the hunter does his or her part. I really like the light weight of the .243 rifles, and the light recoil generated by the round.

I do think Art Eatman's comments concerning tissue damage, blood trail, and penetration are accurate. But I've just about given up on those running shots, Art! I've missed 'em with the .30-06 and with the .243.

Many people who don't like the .243 want a heavier bullet -- 100 grains seems to be the maximum weight for this caliber.

[artsmom]

I think the .243 is blamed for the problems coming with being put in the hands of novices. If they haven't shot enough that they can comfortably handle a .270 or .308, then they haven't shot enough, period, and stand a good chance of coming to grief with any caliber.

I think that the .243, thanks to the advances in bullet technology, can safely be said to be a deer cartridge. My brother has taken some very nice large bodied bucks, but I must admit that his largest bodied (230 pounds) was also his longest shot 9250-300 yards), and his bullet had run out of gas, not making it through broadside, and leaving the deer with a broken shoulder, but plenty alive. Might have been a different story with premium bullets like a Nosler Partition.

Anyhow, I wouldn't bat an eye if handed a .243 or 6mm Remington to finish out my deer hunting days. I am more finicky about the scope than caliber.

[bill k]

Question: If someone is being picky on the type of shot they're taking, why take a neck shot?
There are times when it becomes necessary, but as a first choice? Or did I misunderstand the statement.
As a 150 yard or so deer cartridge, the 243 will do its job.
Bill

[Art Eatman]

bill k, in all seriousness, I first look to a neck shot because some 55 years back my uncle told me to "Shoot her in the white spot!" Sure enough, that doe folded up her legs and was DRT.

My father expounded on the idea that with a neck shot, you most likely either kill or miss.

I was gonna argue with the grownups? No way, Jose!

I usually tweak and mess with pet rifles until they're always inside one MOA. This gives confidence. If I have a rest of some sort, I'll take a neck shot out to maybeso 150 yards. Beyond that, or offhand, I go for the lower chest for a heart/lung shot. Since the great majority of my deer have been one-shot kills, I'll stay with what works.

As far as a running deer, I just guesstimate the number of hundreds of yards and the rough angle and figure about three feet or so of lead per hundred yards for a crossing shot. My outer limit has been about 175 yards. I haven't shot all that many running deer, but I haven't mssed any. Yet. The whole deal is a lot like shooting crossing doves. Set your lead, touch it off and folllow through.

, Art

[Rojoe67]

Marksmanship skills are most important in my view for any hunting activity.

I like the 243 with respect to game and as noted above..... use the right bullet for task at hand....


A few of my buddies have nice 243's that they have set up for the wives. The wives do real well. They are in many ways more careful about shots taken because they don't want to track the wounded deer through the thick stuff. If my wife would hunt with me I would suggest a 243 to her. If my daughter decides to hunt in a few years, same holds true....

[impact]

A buddy of mine hunts with a 6mm Remington ( same thing as the 243 ) and does pretty good! He never let a deer get away. He always makes lung shots on a walking or standing deer. The deer never get more than 50 yards from where he shot them.

The first deer I ever shot was with a 222 in the lungs. From where It was shot to where the deer laid was 60 paces. The bullet made a "peck" sound when it hit the side of the deer.

[22-rimfire]

243/6mm is just fine for whitetail deer with a 100gr or larger bullet. I consider it at or near the bottom of the power range for effective deer hunting. My first deer rifle was a 243 and I did fine. It was also a great long range wood chuck rifle which kept me in practice. I lost a deer shot with the 243, but it was not the caliber's fault... it was the darn tree's fault that I shot through to get to the deer.

I did not know there was a debate about the caliber. Most agree that it is an okay caliber for whitetail hunting. I prefer a tad larger caliber like the 270, 308, 30-06 or similar calibers.

[Willis]

I have a 243 and have taken a couple of bob cats and a few coyotes with it. My wife took a deer with it last year and all kills were DRT. I use 80 grain bullets. I think it is a bit small for elk though, unless you are close and make a good shot. I have a friend that says he is going to get his elk this year with a 22-250. I have no doubt but that he will do it.

Willis

[Dave Haven]

Originally posted by Fremmer:The .243 will kill deer if the hunter does his or her part.

My thoughts, exactly. My Dad has a nice Muley mount on his wall that he took at 440 yards with a .243. He was familiar with the area he was hunting, and had spent considerable time practicing.(and developing loads) The buck took a few steps and dropped.

[bill k]

22-250 for elk, if not illigal should be. A 243 at 400 yards for deer is way beyond it's effective range. A great shooter can do it though, most everyone else can't.
The trouble I see with the statement is now it will become fact, some one who's a poor shot will pop off a 500 yard shot with his little 243. Maybe one in ten will go down. The rest will wander off for bear and coyotye meat.
The 243 is a deer, antilope, and varmit round. A great round mind you, but not more.
bill

[Smokey Joe]

Some of the "problem" w/the .243Win stems from people who went down to the sptg gds sto, bought ".243 ammo," didn't say they were going deer hunting, and got varmint bullet loaded rounds. Of course those rounds didn't penetrate well, even in a little "big game" animal like a deer. Those who didn't understand the difference in the ammo blamed it on the cartridge.

IMHO the .243 is a good deer round, PROVIDED: 1. First and foremost, that the user is a good enough shooter--and anatomist--to carefully place his shots. 2. That a proper bullet is used--loaded my #1 son's first deer rifle w/100 gr. Nosler Partitions and he never had a problem. But boy did we practice with that rifle. 3. That the user is sportsman enough to pass up on the marginal shot, either because of distance or intervening brush.

Frankly my preference is for a slightly larger caliber/more potent round for deer.

[guntotin_fool]

243 factory loads are usually in two levels, a 80 grainer loaded with varmint bullets, and a 100 grainer loaded with a Dual purpose bullet.
There in lies the most significant problem with 243's for deer.

With the advent of premium bullets, the use of a 243 for deer is more reliable. The problem is that many people do not use premium bullets when they need them. There is also a significant difference between a texas deer and a manitoba or northern minnesota deer. We routinely see deer in the 250 pound class in minnesota, and three hundred pounders are not uncommon and I have seen a few that went over four hundred on the hoof, ( a field dressed deer that has had the head removed for taxidermy and still weighs over 340 pounds is more than likely a 400 pound deer on the hoof.)

[LAK]

I would suggest that all this has come about because of the fact that the .243 is a dual-purpose cartridge: light big game - and varmints. And that many "failures" attributed to the .243 are in fact cases of people using bullets intended for varmints on larger game animals.

[chemist308]

Although the 243 is a necked down 308, and the 308 will do at longer ranges anything the 243 can do inside of 225 yards...
The 243Win is quite possibly one of the best all around guns ever made for Pennsylvania purposes. My dad uses a Ruger M77 chamber in that and has anchored every whitetail he's ever shot at, running or not. It's ballistics are most forgiving inside of 225 yards and high velocity enough to shorten leads on moving targets. I would think it's plently a gun to take down black bear when using 100 grain ammo, but besides that it also doubles as a groundhog gun.

[Lonestar.45]

I like the .243. I've shot many, but don't own one. You're right, it gets the bad rap because it is often put into the hands of the most inexperienced shooters, or shooters who won't pass up marginal shots.

In the hands of experienced hunters, it is a great whitetail gun. In the hands of first timers, it is good at the range and good on the hunt, up until they take a marginal shot you or I wouldn't take.

[CarbineCaleb]

Judging by what's in the ballistics tables, anyway, I'd expect the .243 with a 100gr bullet would be good out to 300 yards+ for deer. It's not a weak rifle, and carries it's momentum very efficiently over distance. At the muzzle, it carries about as much energy as the .30-30, but it has more energy remaining at 300 yards than the .30-30 has at 200 yards. 200 yards is normally considered the effective range of the .30-30 on deer.

From the Remington Online Catalog:

.30-30/170gr Soft Point Core Lokt
@muzzle 1827ft-lb
@200 yards 989 ft-lb

.243/100gr Core Lokt Ultra Bonded
@muzzle 1945ft-lb
@300 yards 1120 ft-lb

[Lawyer Daggit]

Carbine caleb you are going off energy tables - these do not make due allowance for the effect of bullet weight and they tend to distort things somwhat.

I agree that the .243 is no [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color], but IMHO it is not such a good killer as a 170 gr .30-30.

I used to own a nice Mannlicher Schoenauer in .243 and the reason I got rid of it was I found it an indifferent killer on wild pig. With 100 gr loads some would go down as if Thor had wacked them and others would appear to get away uninjured even when hit hard. A big factor seemed to be whether the projectile hit bone.

Having said this I have a preference for heavy bullets (I own a .35 whelen and a .350 Rem Mag) am only to aware of the .243 debate and respect those who hold a contrary view.

If you have confidence in a calibre it will often work for you.

[hawken50]

Zeisloft-

a rifle as a scalpel rather than a broad sword

i like that line, mind if i make it my signature?

[Smokey Joe]

Lawyer Daggit--Re the .243 on the hogs-- +1 here! IMHO it is TOO little to penetrate from many angles--and those big hogs have that heavy scar/cartilage collar--pigs have been called walking bullet traps and I agree. Sure, a .243 will put them down SOMETIMES, but the same could be said for using a .243 on a grizzly bear.

You have to respect what you are hunting, enough to use a gun that will get you a quick, humane kill under any reasonable circumstances (given always that you do YOUR part!) You owe this to your quarry. You owe it to your gun. Most of all you owe it to yourself.

And there is such a thing as overdoing it (.375 H&H on cottontail rabbits comes to mind--doesn't leave enough to eat.)

But the old cliche' is true for all its mossy age: Use Enough Gun!

[kirbymagnum]

the 243 is a good dear gun and is not under powerd its all about placing your shots i shot a black bear at 60 yards with it and it droped then i went to it and it got back up. The next day my dad shot another black bear at 80 yards and he it it right between the eyes and it didnt make a sound and droped like a rock.