The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 11, 2021, 09:00 PM   #1
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 129
What did the cowboy do?

I generally drown my percussion revolvers while cleaning after a day at the range, but the cylinders have all been fired so no concern about wetting loaded chambers.
After a cowboy fires a single shot from his percussion revolver, did he clean the empty chamber before reloading? Was it a quick wipe of the chamber with a damp rag on a stick?
jdc606 is offline  
Old April 11, 2021, 09:50 PM   #2
44caliberkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,063
From looking at antique examples of pistols that were real working guns, they didn't bother to clean them much anytime. Usually there is lots of pitting around the rear of the barrel, forcing cone and front of the cylinder. I've seen half a dozen original Colt percussion pistols that had barbed wire gouges in the barrel steel, from using the pistol as a lever to stretch wire. Many damaged from use as hammers. To a working cowboy his pistol was just a tool, like a pair a pliers, you didn't have a lot of downtime to do maintenance on your gun. You rode all day, ate supper and hit the sack till up at dawn.
They also likely greased over the chambers, to help seal the charge and also, if you did fire your weapon, the huge amount of Lube would keep the fouling soft for days till you could wipe it off.
44caliberkid is offline  
Old April 11, 2021, 10:27 PM   #3
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,453
A local old fashioned store had a wall full of muzzleloading rifles and shotguns, most hideously plated in nickel, chrome, even gold. But the plating was over heavy pitting around the drum, where chlorate caps leaked chloride spray on the steel; seldom cleaned.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 12, 2021, 11:13 AM   #4
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
Hickock reportedly started his day by shooting out both of his Navy Colts, cleaning them, then reloading them and going on with his day.

But he wasn't a "working cowboy".
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 12, 2021, 11:53 AM   #5
chris downs
Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 91
I understand that the metallic cartridge era shootists unloaded and cleaned their pistols each night whether shot or not.
chris downs is offline  
Old April 12, 2021, 02:12 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,392
That's what they *say* they did.
But "best practice" statements in a book rarely align with reality and practicality.

I've been doing substantial research into shotgun history, and all it does is reaffirm my belief and understanding of what typical practices were in the BP era:
1. The average owner did not have a fine firearm. They had a cheap, working man's gun. Few cared about cleaning religiously, unless the firearm was truly a prized possession. If it was just a tool, putting cleaning off for a day, or two, or weeks, was not seen as a big deal. The rate of advancement in the field of firearms had many, many people approach the tools as if they planned on replacing their shotgun, rifle, and/or revolver before it could ever corrode enough to be an issue. They knew they could abuse it, because something better would be in the market within 5 years.

-Today, we live in a world that has been stagnant and nearly standing still for the last 135 years. But in the percussion BP era, every week had something amazing introduced. Every year, something truly revolutionary came out. And, often, they were actually affordable.

2. People were busy. They worked (and played) long, hard days, and were dead-dog tired by the end of the day. If a gun was going to get cleaned, it would happen in the morning - or, more than likely while out on the trail, when the hunter/cowboy/prospector decided to bathe.

One of the notable exceptions would be market hunters with punt guns. When they operated on the water, they had easy access and often swabbed the bore for every shot - almost treating them like cannon.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old April 14, 2021, 01:19 PM   #7
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 129
Thank you

Thanks to all for sharing. A bit surprised to read a cowboy would neglect a tool, (his revolver) so costly when compared to a $30 per month salary. Also, the thought of lube covered cylinder chambers has me wondering. Any lube on a hot Texas day would probably be a fly magnet puddle in the bottom of a saddlebag, but I'm no expert on the topic.
Can anyone recommend a good book or two on the topic of "real cowboy life"?
jdc606 is offline  
Old April 14, 2021, 01:37 PM   #8
stinkeypete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,282
Accurate histories of American Cowboys are hard to come by as the myth of the American cowboy is so pervasive.

the Log of a Cowboy, Andy Adams, 1903 is getting close to source material and is highly regarded.

Orphans Wanted, the Twisted Truth and Lasting Legend of the Pony Express by Christopher starts out very well, then the last quarter of the book slogs in details. It explains how the historical record of these times begins extremely unclear (hilariously so) and the how buffalo Bill got the ball rolling, and then it really got silly.

Get em at the library... librarians are cool. So is history!
__________________
My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon.
Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.
stinkeypete is offline  
Old April 14, 2021, 03:45 PM   #9
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,714
If he broke a mainspring, he could whittle a wood spacer to keep it going.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mainspring.JPG (19.8 KB, 118 views)
Lavan is offline  
Old April 14, 2021, 08:44 PM   #10
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc606 View Post
Thanks to all for sharing. A bit surprised to read a cowboy would neglect a tool, (his revolver) so costly when compared to a $30 per month salary. Also, the thought of lube covered cylinder chambers has me wondering. Any lube on a hot Texas day would probably be a fly magnet puddle in the bottom of a saddlebag, but I'm no expert on the topic.
Can anyone recommend a good book or two on the topic of "real cowboy life"?
Most cowboys didn't even own guns. If they needed a gun it was supplied by the ranch. Most people that used cap and ball revolvers didn't use any lube. The old pics of cowboys lounging around the ranch wearing guns were staged. The pics you see of cowboys actually working you don't see any guns.
Hawg is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 10:07 AM   #11
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,823
I'm learning. Thanks.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 12:57 PM   #12
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,786
Quote:
Most cowboys didn't even own guns. If they needed a gun it was supplied by the ranch. Most people that used cap and ball revolvers didn't use any lube. The old pics of cowboys lounging around the ranch wearing guns were staged. The pics you see of cowboys actually working you don't see any guns.
And if they did have a gun it was most likely in the saddle bags.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 02:37 PM   #13
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,392
Quote:
And if they did have a gun it was most likely in the saddle bags.
Or scabbard.
Which, once wet, is far, far worse for the firearm than any lack of cleaning.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 02:54 PM   #14
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
Quote:
1. The average owner did not have a fine firearm. They had a cheap, working man's gun. Few cared about cleaning religiously, unless the firearm was truly a prized possession. If it was just a tool, putting cleaning off for a day, or two, or weeks, was not seen as a big deal. The rate of advancement in the field of firearms had many, many people approach the tools as if they planned on replacing their shotgun, rifle, and/or revolver before it could ever corrode enough to be an issue. They knew they could abuse it, because something better would be in the market within 5 years.
I'll agree with some of this, and disagree with some as well. Yes there are a lot of people who didn't care for their tools as well as the should, but I think this is something that became more prevalent during the later 20th century.

What you need to look at are the "poor" people, who didn't have much in the way of cash. Tools cost money, and while it might not be a high quality gun, a "working man's gun" was still a sizable investment, could be a month's earnings, and so they tried to keep it in good working condition.

there wasn't nearly as much of "if it breaks/gets ruined I'll just buy another one" back then as there is today. Not even close. Farmers and ranchers needed their tools to last, could not afford to be constantly replacing them, and generally took care of them so they would last.

It's much more common that while cared for during the original owner's life, it was the sons or grandsons that inherited the "old stuff" that let it rot/rust into uselessness, something we still see today...
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 03:37 PM   #15
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
It's much more common that while cared for during the original owner's life, it was the sons or grandsons that inherited the "old stuff" that let it rot/rust into uselessness, something we still see today...

Totally agree with this statement.
Centurion is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 08:40 PM   #16
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
Accurate histories of American Cowboys are hard to come by as the myth of the American cowboy is so pervasive.

the Log of a Cowboy, Andy Adams, 1903 is getting close to source material and is highly regarded.
Hello Pete,
Located and am reading Log of a Cowboy. Also found an interesting website with real cowboys telling their stories, https://tinyurl.com/yf95czxh
Have read a series of books authored by an old gal, Loula Grace Erdman. Her stories are of the settling of the Texas panhandle and the fighting along the western frontier of Kansas/Missouri before and during the Civil War.
Have not found much specific to early gun ownership but those early settlers were all about surviving and "waste not, want not."
jdc606 is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 09:13 PM   #17
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
Here in my country an old "gaucho" (our cowboy) once told me that usual practice his grand grandfather used to do was to let some hot water go thru the barrel of his own Winchester 73 carbine. Such practice was performed at night if they shot the carbine by the day, with the same steel pot they use to heat up water for their coffee or "mate" (a local infusion).
Centurion is offline  
Old April 15, 2021, 09:17 PM   #18
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
I personally did the same with my original 73 saddle ring carbine and the interior of barrel is as well as a hundred years ago, not shiny bright but in very good condition. And it is 134 yo.
Centurion is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 05:07 AM   #19
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
Heating up water to wash the Winchester carbine after using it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg IMG-20210331-WA0000.jpeg (700.0 KB, 124 views)
Centurion is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 07:12 AM   #20
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
Here in my country an old "gaucho" (our cowboy) once told me that usual practice his grand grandfather used to do was to let some hot water go thru the barrel of his own Winchester 73 carbine. Such practice was performed at night if they shot the carbine by the day, with the same steel pot they use to heat up water for their coffee or "mate" (a local infusion).
Thank you Centurion. Caring for a lever gun is why I got on this topic in the first place. My brother prefers black powder in his lever guns and questioned if pouring hot water down the bore to run out the action would be good enough to neutralize the corrosive residue. You have answered the question but I will continue reading of pioneer life.
jdc606 is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 07:19 AM   #21
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
I personally did the same with my original 73 saddle ring carbine and the interior of barrel is as well as a hundred years ago, not shiny bright but in very good condition. And it is 134 yo.
Centurion. My brother is a big fan of Ballistol moose milk. Hot water can make steel rust in a hurry. What treatment did you or your great grand-dad use after the hot water flush?
jdc606 is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 09:11 AM   #22
chris downs
Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 91
Sperm whale oil was a most prized gun oil. Other animal fats smelled bad.
chris downs is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 11:08 AM   #23
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,392
Quote:
I'll agree with some of this, and disagree with some as well. Yes there are a lot of people who didn't care for their tools as well as the should, but I think this is something that became more prevalent during the later 20th century.
I absolutely agree that a substantial amount of rot on surviving guns was caused by neglect after the firearm went into storage, or was abandoned in a shed, because it was "obsolete". (Whether as an heirloom or in the original owner's possession.)

However, I have come across many modern "misrememberances" in my research. One instance, in particular, illustrates this point:
I ran across several people in shotgun forums claiming that Basil Tozer (Practical Hints on Shooting, 1887, and other texts) never left a pigeon shoot without cleaning his guns.
If one actually reads his book(s), he never says that. In one, seeming out of place and off-the-cuff remark, he offers the advice, "It is best to clean the guns as soon as the pleasantries have ended, so as to keep them from being spoilt."
But the closest you get to it, otherwise, is, "It is far better to clean guns immediately after the day's work is over, (...)"

That's the kicker. People forget that it is advice, not necessarily his personal practice, and includes the qualifying phrases of, "best to," and, "far better."

The same thing shows up with nearly every other suggestion. There are qualifying statements, because we live in a dynamic world, and everyone has their own procedures.
At no point, does he ever say, "I clean my guns as soon as firing has ceased."

In a couple places in the 1887 book, he mentions that many of his contemporaries *preferred* waiting at least one day, sometimes more, after shooting, because the fouling from certain powders was easier to wipe from the bore - even though they knew that this had a, "deleterious effect upon the barrels."

It is like Fuddlore. Someone misquotes, misunderstands, or deliberately misrepresents what is being said, and it gets repeated by people unwilling or unable to research it for themselves, until it has been drilled into the heads of the masses (or focused minority).
Before long, it becomes *fact*, even though entirely false, contextually incorrect, or based upon a false premise.
In this case, it is the lack of direct statement that is ignore. Instead, the suggestion and best practice is taken as the word of god, and perpetuated as an absolute.


I see similar things with Blagdon (1900), Capt Money (1875-1894), and other authors; as well as letters and articles in period newsletters of the time (like Chicago Field, Hunter-Trader-Trapper, Fin Fur Feather, etc.).
Any time the subject of cleaning comes up, it is loaded with qualifying statements. Rarely, very rarely, does anyone actually say, "I always..."
Or, "My barrels are patched in the clubhouse before departing."
Or, "Never have I shot without cleaning before the night's end."

The following is purely my opinion: They would not be talking about cleaning so much and so fervently if it were not a subject that required constant attention.

There is a modern book, I believe it is Yardley's, which mentions the unorganized pigeon shooting done at roadhouses and inns while pigeon (and sparrow, and bat) shooting was an uncouth activity reserved for the poor (~1830-1860). Though pigeon shooting regained popularity with more wealthy crowds, the "unregulated" roadhouse and inn shooting remained until the 1890s. There is a quote from an old traveling salesman, remarking that the shotguns were always in poor condition, badly maintained, and he only ever saw one (muzzle loader) cleaned when it was "fouled and rotted so thoroughly" as to not allow the wadding to be forced down the barrel.

Even WW Greener complains several times about the [summarized from memory], 'excessive number of men that do not give proper attention to their guns ... and ruin them by not cleaning enough, or soon enough.'
Elsewhere, he remarks about a relatively new shotgun that came in for repair and was in such a poor state from lack of cleaning that it needed a new set of barrels. He did not believe that such a person should be able to own a gun. But they did.


I will absolutely agree with anyone that says we have a far greater problem with modern shooters being lazy about cleaning, than our contemporaries 130-160 years ago. But that doesn't mean that everyone took care of their tools in the BP era.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old April 16, 2021, 11:30 AM   #24
Centurion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2016
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc606 View Post
Centurion. My brother is a big fan of Ballistol moose milk. Hot water can make steel rust in a hurry. What treatment did you or your great grand-dad use after the hot water flush?
Just animal fat. Like in the old days. And it was not my relative but the grand grandfather of a local old man. Judging the age of the man I was talking to, his relative maybe was living such kind of life at the end of the 19th century.

Anyway, we aren't fighting against the worst of enemies old weapons had, corrosive primers.

Last edited by Centurion; April 16, 2021 at 11:35 AM.
Centurion is offline  
Old September 22, 2021, 11:52 AM   #25
ThomasT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,746
I have some of the Time/Life Old West series of books and from what I have read the cowboys may have owned guns but didn't wear them while working as cowboys because a shot from a gun could cause a stampede of the cattle. Cattle that stampeded could take a couple of days to round up or could even be deadly to a horse and rider who was in the wrong place when the stampede started. Guns were carried in the chuck wagon and retrieved if there was an Indian problem. But most were never shot.

A gun was an expensive investment and so was the ammunition. I suspect guns were fired a lot less than most think. A gun that was probably fired the most was a shotgun. It was used to gather food and keep raiders out of the hen house. Those were easy to clean and were probably wiped out before being reloaded and put away.

The wild west was not as wild as Hollywood would have you believe. There were suicides and heavy drinking in the western forts because of boredom. Or so I have read.

I have been able to look at a few old guns and all were rusted to some degree but would still function. Some were rusted out junk. The worst one was an early Winchester 94 in 30-30. It was a ruined rust bucket. And yes corrosive primers were one of the biggest problems. Those ate guns for breakfast.

Someone posted the advice from Colt on percussion guns to shoot a cap on all cylinders to make sure they were dry and then load each cylinder back up and the gun could be stored loaded and expected to fire when needed. No mention was made to clean the gun first and then reload.
ThomasT is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12149 seconds with 9 queries