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Old November 30, 2021, 03:03 PM   #1
ligonierbill
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56-56 Spencer

Here again with an unusual caliber. I've been fascinated by the Spencer, and "Unforgiven" just exacerbated that. So I bought one in decent shape. Not too pricey, actually. Everyone is after Winchesters and Sharps, I guess. Now, for a few bucks I purchased a replacement breechblock that allows for centerfire cartridges. And I bought some brass from Buffalo Arms. That was somewhat of a disappointment, as it is simply shortened 50-70 cases. I have plenty of 50-70, and the rim diameter is just a touch too big. Can't close the action on them. Well, easy enough to chuck these in a drill and run the rim over an abrasive. But, bullets are a problem. This rifle slugs at 0.548, and the original bullet was 0.550 "heeled". I have some Buffalo Arms 52's, which I may try with a paper patch. But I would really like to buy some that match the original. If not that, at least a casting die.

Anyone have some thoughts, advice, experience?
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Old November 30, 2021, 03:33 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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I googled for you with no result.
These folks make a wide variety of molds (is that what you mean by "casting die?") or anything you can draw.
http://accuratemolds.com/index.php
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Old November 30, 2021, 06:32 PM   #3
ligonierbill
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Thanks, I ordered a mold from them. Guess I'll be casting my own now.
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Old November 30, 2021, 09:50 PM   #4
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http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...bullet=55-380G

... was that it?
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Old December 1, 2021, 05:53 AM   #5
ligonierbill
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Yes.
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Old December 1, 2021, 02:18 PM   #6
ligonierbill
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I installed the S&S centerfire breechblock this afternoon. It required a little fitting, but I suppose any close tolerance part was hand fitted back in the day.

My rim interference with the shortened 50-70 cases is due to a small sheet metal tab on the left side. When you close the action, it fits into a small slot. Its apparent function is to wedge the cartridge to the right side where the rimfire pin strikes. Not necessary with a centerfire. I thought to remove it, but apparently I am not the first fool to try it. Unfortunately, the first fool buggered the slot on the screw. I think I will get it out and replace the screw. That way I can restore the rifle to original condition if a supply of 56-56 rimfire magically appears.

I did order a Lee lead furnace and some handles for my dies. Though I shoot a number of ancient rounds, I have avoided casting my own. That will change now. Yes, I am prepared to be humbled, even though I have a Masters in Materials Engineering. Casting is more art than science, but it's time I got on the learning curve.

Now, I am not one to think the old ways are best. I like modern technology (including MIM), but I have to admire the designers and craftsmen that put this piece together 160 years ago. Pretty slick. And if I can hit the proverbial pie plate at 100 yards consistently with this handy carbine, I'll be a happy camper.
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Old December 1, 2021, 02:47 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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Good luck. A friend has a Sharps Conversion that is about Minute of Comanche accurate.
It is at the high end of barrel groove diameter that they left with the original barrel; anything over .525" was lined to take the .515" .50-70 bullet.
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Old December 9, 2021, 12:11 PM   #8
ligonierbill
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Well, I got the little tab off without further damaging the screwhead. A few wacks on a manual impact driver did the trick. The shortened 50-70 cases do chamber, but the 0.540 bullets I bought are about as big as will fit in those cases. Paper patch? Fuhgetaboutit. So I loaded one and one only over 35 gr by volume Black MZ, all that would fit. I will fire this one for a function test, but while it contacts the rifling, it will be 4 mils off the grooves all around. Doubt it will stabilize at all. So, I need to wait for my mold for heeled 0.550 bullets to do a real test. It would be nice if I could find a hollow base 0.540 mold to try. The old 41 Long Colt used heeled 0.401 bullets, but later loadings used 0.386 hollow based. The theory is the "skirt" expands to take the rifling, and it does work. Hope to get to the range tomorrow.
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Old December 9, 2021, 02:09 PM   #9
Jim Watson
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Lee makes a .540" Minie ball mold that might work, if you can find it.

Originals were meant to "modernize" the .54 cal. 1841 Mississippi rifle in CSA service. I recall they did not work too well, the Yanks just rebored a lot of them to .58.
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Old December 13, 2021, 04:35 PM   #10
ligonierbill
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Packed my Spencer and one round to the range. Also took my 1886, but that's another story. I just wanted to see if the Spencer would fire, so I set a target at 25 yards and took a casual off hand shot. It came close to the bull, and the 0.540 made a nice round hole. So I guess it did "take" the rifling. Didn't tumble, at least. Case dropped right out, but the extractor does not pick up the rim. So, I'll load some more and run them over the chrono next time. Also need to load the magazine and try that function.
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Old December 20, 2021, 05:16 PM   #11
ligonierbill
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First, a correction. The BA bullets are 0.520. In any case, I loaded them over only 30 gr. FFg (35 requires a lot of compression) and ran them past my LabRadar: Avg 822/Std 29.4. That was 4 rounds. I have 4 left to try the feed mechanism, then I will hold up until I get my molds and can cast some proper bullets. The cases drop right out, even though, as I noted earlier, the extractor misses the rim. I wish I could find some replica cases adapted to centerfire, but you work with what you have.
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Old December 20, 2021, 11:18 PM   #12
Jim Watson
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Could you expand and straighten out .56-50?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102132224
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Old December 21, 2021, 04:25 AM   #13
ligonierbill
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Should work, it's not that much of a stretch. I took a chance and ordered 100. I was concerned about the rim, which is smaller diameter than my converted 50-70 cases, but the extractor (that metal tab I misidentified) will not pass the rim on those. Not sure how the original rimfire worked, as the data I have says it had a larger diameter. But I haven't had an original rimfire to measure.

Last edited by ligonierbill; December 21, 2021 at 09:06 AM.
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Old December 23, 2021, 05:25 PM   #14
ligonierbill
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Well, I got my 56-50 brass from Midway, and I believe it will work. The rim is slightly smaller, but pretty sure the extractor will pick it up. I tried sizing one in my CH4D 56-56 die, and I found that these dies do not have an expander mandrel, just a decapper pin. So I ran it through the flare die. No problem. Easily expands to take my 0.520 Buffalo Arms bullets. Now, the real test will come when I get my mold for 0.550 heeled bullets. These Starline cases are longer than my 50-70 trimmed cases, which in turn are longer than the original spec (if Wiki is correct). But one can always trim. I am bidding a single original round for comparison, as well as just to have one. Lots of fun!
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Old December 23, 2021, 05:43 PM   #15
Jim Watson
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Already? That's fas delivery.
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Old December 23, 2021, 07:04 PM   #16
ligonierbill
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It was. And on the same delivery I got the bullet sizing die I ordered 3 weeks ago. Go figure.
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Old February 12, 2022, 03:17 PM   #17
ligonierbill
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First photo is bullets cast with the Accurate mold suggested by Mehavey. Second is one of those bullets loaded in a 56-50 case from Midway beside an original round. The "shank" of those heeled bullets is 0.52 and fits fine in those cases. The mold dropped 374 grain bullets using 20:1 alloy. Notice the fairly sharp parabolic shape of the original bullet. Fine for rimfire, but I would not want that against the primer of a round next to my jaw. My new rounds feed through the lever action, but they hang up just a touch in chambering. A little help is needed, but they do chamber with no resistance. I would need to go with a shorter case and a different bullet shape for full function of the action. I tried 35 gr FFg, which fit with a lot of compression. With 30 gr, I have contact, but 32 seems just right. The original is reported to load 40-45 gr. Since I already tested 0.520 bullets over 30 gr, I expect something approaching 900 fps with my new loads. First decent weather, and I'm off to the range.
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