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Old October 22, 2015, 12:46 AM   #1
Mike40-11
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43 Spanish Reformado

So I picked up an 1886 Spanish Remington rolling block at an auction for $300. It was listed as a Danish rolling block but is clearly Spanish made, Oviedo stamped.

It came with 50 rounds of ammo. Cases are .348 Win reformed to 43 Spanish. But, after a chamber cast, I found the actual caliber of the rifle to be 43 Spanish Reformado. Bullets appear to be original pulled Spanish "poison bullets".

Cartridges are loaded with an unknown smokeless powder so I'm going to pull them down and reload with Pyrodex. But I'm wondering what to use after I burn up those 50 bullets.

Anybody load for this? What bullets?
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Old October 22, 2015, 02:03 AM   #2
Doc Hoy
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Mike....

It is hard to tell from the photo but it appears that your chamber casting does not have the neck that is present on the case. Is it possible that the ammunition your received with the rifle is not for the rifle?

I think, (and I would ask for confirmation from others who are certain) that Reformado will fit in .43 Spanish but not vice versa.

I had such a rifle and my search for cases was unsuccessful. Found a coupla places which advertise that they carry the brass at about 5.00 each but none of those places had it is stock when I was looking.
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Old October 22, 2015, 02:52 AM   #3
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More info...

Track of the Wolf says they have them and nothing in the add says they are out of stock.

3.39 each. Not a bad price.
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Old October 22, 2015, 08:18 AM   #4
Mike40-11
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You're right, no neck in the chamber of rifle. Actually, the 43 Spanish will fit the reformado chamber, but not the other way. Original 43 uses .439 bullets, reformado uses .451. I think that's exactly what's going on here. I can find 43 spanish brass, but haven't seen reformado anywhere. But it seems that you can use the original 43 brass just fine.

I've got 50 cases which should last me. Not like I'm going to be burning through tons of rounds on this thing. What I'm looking for is projectiles. Track of the Wolf has .439s for the original, but not the larger bullets for the reformado.

I did find some 357 gr and 328gr .452 hard cast bullets. Wondering if anybody has some experience loading something similar.
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Old October 24, 2015, 06:30 AM   #5
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I would bet that Buffalo Arms might be a good source of bullets and brass.

And check out the American Single Shot Rifle Association website for more loading info too.

Tight groups.

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Old October 28, 2015, 05:14 AM   #6
Mike Irwin
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If you use soft lead and a good lube you could probably use bullets all the way up to .458 in diameter.

IOW, bullets for the .45-70.
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Old September 18, 2021, 08:18 AM   #7
toot44
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can regular 43 SPANISH rounds be safely shot in a REFORMATO chambered gun?
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Old September 18, 2021, 08:21 AM   #8
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can .452 DIA, 45 ACP cast lead heads be used in the REFORMATO?
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Old March 3, 2022, 08:11 AM   #9
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43 reformato

any one can answer my question that I posted?
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Old March 3, 2022, 03:32 PM   #10
Drm50
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I don’t know about store bought components. I just sold my Mold, it was made by Rapine
I let my dies and brass go with it as package. My brass was also formed from 348 Win.
I cast bullets on soft side and used canning paraffin and candles for lube. Poured into pan and used a piece of tubing as a cutter. I loaded with Unique.
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Old March 4, 2022, 11:31 AM   #11
reinert
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M40-11, a couple of questions that I hope I can maybe help you out with an answer or two:

Evidently you didn't get a set of dies with the rifle, correct? If not, I know Lee made, hopefully still makes, .43 Spanish dies that are reasonably priced. Any other .43 Spanish dies may be hard to find, and no doubt will be fairly pricey. This is just from what I experienced about a year and a half ago.

Am I right that the cartridge case you show with the chamber cast is an actual fire-formed case from the rifle? The reason I ask this is because I have an original #1 sporting Rem Roller in 44/77 cal., and my fire-formed cases look very much like yours. My new, unfired Jamison cases that I got with the rifle look quite different at the case body transition to the neck than a fire-formed one does.

There's a lot of similarities with those calibers, i.e., the .44/77 and the .43 Spanish. I've never heard of the "Reformado" designation before, though. You will need to slug the bore to find your true bore diameter if you want to be serious about accuracy, along with the proper mould to fit it to the groove depth (and that's nothing more than my opinion). I think there may be a few that would agree on that... I slugged my roller from the breech into the rifling a few inches, and then backed the slug out and measured it. Then I did the same from the muzzle, backed the slug out and measured. I found it hard to do a good, confident measurement with my calipers, because the grooves in my rifle don't line up across from each other to get a proper measurement. I ended up finding and using the right pin gauge to slip through the bore and found my bore diameter was (is) right at .437." Mike Venturino, in his book, "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" says bore size in these old rifles of .44/77 had quite a variance in bore size (what I had to deal with) and the .43 Spanish had a bore size of .439." The "Reformado" bore, I guess, may be different. Again, slug the bore to really determine what you have (IMO). I was fortunate to get a set of 43 Mauser dies with my rifle, but I also have two sets of .43 Spanish dies that I use together to come up with a good, accurate handload for my .44 to hunt with. I also got a really nice Steve Brooks mould with the gun that when I size the bullets to fit my rifle proper, I've got a cool, old original .44 caliber rifle from the "Big Shaggy" hunt era from back in the day. My rifle, as near as can be determined is right around 1880 as to date of mfg. If you need a custom mould, Steve Brooks can make most anytbing you want. A great guy to visit with, besides.

Another question:

Did the fellow you got the rifle from reload those "poison bullets" (as you call them) and you have 50 of them? I understand they may be brass jacketed or some other mystery alloy (?). Also, what's the R.O.T. on your roller? That could very well determine what bullet weight you'd want to shoot accurately in your reloads. I use 1.5 fg Swiss in my reloads, and use the 77 grain charge. That charge brings the powder right up into the neck, and with very little compression, the bullet seats exactly right for my bore C.O.A.L.

FWIW: Consider trying the pin gauge measurement application. This worked well for me to determine my right bore size. If you know fairly closely your bore diameter, but are fairly unsure to your measurement, order a couple of pin gauges a couple of .000's above and below your findings. Find the one that JUST slips through your bore and keep that one. You can send the other back for a refund (as I did), and Bob's your uncle.

I dillyed and dallyed around to find the right combination of die parts, bullet sizers and the pertinent measurements to come up with a great hunting load for my old roller. It was a fun project to make a true custom load to get that old gun to shoot, and I killed a nice doe whitetail with it last year, a 75 yd. shot through the boiler room with open sights. Quite a satisfying result when you've done what it's taken to produce an accurate piece of ammo for an old original rifle.

You might consider a copy of Venturin's book, "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West," too. Lots of good stuff in there. Also, that's already been mentioned, Buffalo Arms is an outstanding source for supplies and first rate info of most anything regarding B.P.C.R. I believe they make custom moulds, too. Call them, ask them, and have a good visit!

Wish you all the best in finding a proper load for your roller, and if it were me, I wouldn't shoot those "poison" bullets. Figure out the right cast bullet, lubed properly, and seated over a proper charge of b.p. (just my opinion, and nothing more...). Have fun with a great shooting project!
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Old March 4, 2022, 11:45 AM   #12
reinert
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just for the h--- of it, I looked and found these without much surfing. So, if you need a set:

http://www.titanreloading.com/produc...nish-2-die-set
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Old March 4, 2022, 12:20 PM   #13
reinert
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Sorry toot, my bad, can't help you out on your question. Didn't realize how old this OP was. Hopefully someone can glean some info from my post. Geeze... It's good to be retired... truly.
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