Colt 1860 frame is done for?

BlackLabsMatter · January 20, 2017, 04:09 PM

I have a Traditions Colt 1860 .36 sheriff's nickel with BRASS frame. Bought it used. At that time the barrel wedge fit was tight and required the use of a blade or screwdriver to pull.

I've put a few hundred rounds through it, all round ball with Hodgdon Pyrodex P.

At the end of today's shooting session, I noticed the barrel wedge was gradually backing out under recoil. Now the barrel wedge slips out with finger pressure. I also noticed that the barrel gap changed between chambers, back and forth.

After cleaning I noticed indentations on the frame, matching the cylinder cutouts around the nipples.

The manual(it came with box and manual) stated the recommended load with LRB is 16 to 25 gr of Pyrodex P. With 16 gr, the ramrod bottomed out and the teeth slip past its holes on the barrel, so that wasn't doable. I settled on 20 gr which was the load I exclusively shot.

I bought it cheap and didn't have high expectations for the lifespan of the brass frame. I planned on wearing it out and replacing it. Hoping it was later rather than sooner.

Is it still a shootable? What else should I look out for?

In really enjoying percussion revolver shooting and this is my first and only. Any recommendations for a decent inexpensive steel frame 36(not picky if Colt or Remington, 1851 or 1860) to replace it and from where? Thanks.

EDIT: Just realised a shim over the offending area might make for a good patch for now and even the recoil bearing across the frame. Good/bad idea?

Hawg · January 20, 2017, 04:40 PM

Some have shimmed them and say it works. Personally I wont go over 15 grains in a brass frame.

AKexpat · January 20, 2017, 05:50 PM

I have no affiliation with any of these sellers. Just answering your request for steel frame revolver sources.

These are all Pietta 1851 Navy .36 pistols (my favorite) except for the first item.

Here is a rare find (a used cased Navy Arms Leech & Rigdon replica): it started at $199 (no reserve) and worth a look:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/615003586

The next one is a squareback TG; DGW lists it as available, but the stock picture is of a date code [CM] or earlier with the "tail" grip profile, and I don't believe Pietta made any SB TG models after that date. Check before purchasing:

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4

The rest are round TG pistols:

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4

http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/trad...octbarrel.aspx

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-...el-pietta.html

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoot..._SEQ_567338580

Good luck!

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · January 20, 2017, 05:59 PM

I'd solder a piece of metal into the arbor. Even better, put a bead of weld and then file it down. That would tighten it. Keep the loads light, say 15 gr.

Hawg · January 20, 2017, 06:04 PM

Quote:

I'd solder a piece of metal into the arbor.

I don't see where he said the arbor was loose. The cylinder gap is coming from the battered recoil shield allowing the cylinder to move back further.

AKexpat · January 20, 2017, 06:13 PM

^^^^^ +1

Jim

Lee44ShooterCnB · January 20, 2017, 06:49 PM

Check out the seller.....F at top of list....for 2017

Smokin'Joe · January 20, 2017, 09:57 PM

A shim can work:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...46#post6177346

rodwhaincamo · January 20, 2017, 09:59 PM

Quite frankly, from reading several BP forums over the years, you'll likely have less work to do out of the box with a Colt model from Pietta and a Remington model from Uberti.

If historical isn't a requirement and find a Ruger Old Army you might be interested in one.

foolzrushn · January 20, 2017, 10:33 PM

It may be too late to matter this time, but FYI in the future, I believe that some shooters use a filler such as Cream Of Wheat (COW) over the powder/wad and under the ball.

That would have allowed you to use the lighter load and might even have been more accurate. It should have kept the loading lever from bottoming out when seating the ball. That may be something you want to do if you shim the cylinder and continue shooting the brass frame '60.

DD4lifeusmc · January 21, 2017, 09:36 AM

Traditions makes an ok revolver ( actually they don't make it just sell it)
but it is at the low end of the quality of parts scale.
Yes it can probably be salvaged but at what cost.
You can cut brass shim to place behind the cylinder and glue / solder in.
You can have arbor wire tigged to tighten up the slot.
Wedges don't have to be much more than finger tight when properly installed
none of mine are, but i did my own finishing fit to what I liked.
Also I only own steel based models these days.
And in most cases 15 to 18 gr would be just fine.
But you may want to consider using real bp if you can.

Jimmya1742 · January 21, 2017, 11:14 AM

I have the Dixie Gun Works .36 cal 1860 Sheriff's model and I really like it. Nice shooting gun for the price.

BlackLabsMatter · January 21, 2017, 01:43 PM

Thanks for all the advice. I'll check out the online dealers posted.

The arbor is as solid as a rock. It's just that the frame is getting battered.

It doesn't really upset nor surprise me. Like I said, this was an opportunity buy at a gun dealer, to see if I liked percussion shooting(I do, a lot). I figured it was a matter of when the frame was gonna wear, not if. The filler is a good idea.

I'm thinking I'd be happiest to get a Remington-Beals when a good deal comes up. Though to be honest, I'm really getting used to the Colt pattern.

I'd love to get a Ruger Old Army but they're pricier than a Blackhawk. I'm a big fan of their double actions.

Never thought after years of shooting centerfire DA revolvers that percussion revolvers would appeal to me. There's something raw and intense about the smoke wagons. The incredibly inexpensive balls and powder has made it my plinking "round" of choice.

I'm not a reenactor nor a collector. It's the shooting and the experience of doing it the old way that keeps me interested.

drobs · January 21, 2017, 03:18 PM

Is your gun a Pietta and does it have the water table /stepped cylinder like the 44 cal 1860's have?

Can you post a pic?

BlackLabsMatter · January 21, 2017, 05:06 PM

The cylinder decreases in radius past the nipples. I still have the box which calls it an "1860". No matter. I don't think it's worth tracking down another frame.

I'm going to machine/shim the battered ring around the arbor and get a little more life out of it for now.

It IS an odd configuration. I looked to see if a config like this was still made and it doesn't look so. It would be a unique keeper of it wasn't a brasser.

JACKlangrishe · January 22, 2017, 01:11 PM

post some pics! I'm curious

rodwhaincamo · January 22, 2017, 02:09 PM

If you look around and get lucky you may stumble upon a ROA for under $400 with plenty to choose from under $600, though I've seen auction prices well over $1000.

I figure $500 is a fair price for one in good condition.

January 20, 2017, 04:09 PM	#1
BlackLabsMatter Member Join Date: December 14, 2016 Posts: 32	Colt 1860 frame is done for? I have a Traditions Colt 1860 .36 sheriff's nickel with BRASS frame. Bought it used. At that time the barrel wedge fit was tight and required the use of a blade or screwdriver to pull. I've put a few hundred rounds through it, all round ball with Hodgdon Pyrodex P. At the end of today's shooting session, I noticed the barrel wedge was gradually backing out under recoil. Now the barrel wedge slips out with finger pressure. I also noticed that the barrel gap changed between chambers, back and forth. After cleaning I noticed indentations on the frame, matching the cylinder cutouts around the nipples. The manual(it came with box and manual) stated the recommended load with LRB is 16 to 25 gr of Pyrodex P. With 16 gr, the ramrod bottomed out and the teeth slip past its holes on the barrel, so that wasn't doable. I settled on 20 gr which was the load I exclusively shot. I bought it cheap and didn't have high expectations for the lifespan of the brass frame. I planned on wearing it out and replacing it. Hoping it was later rather than sooner. Is it still a shootable? What else should I look out for? In really enjoying percussion revolver shooting and this is my first and only. Any recommendations for a decent inexpensive steel frame 36(not picky if Colt or Remington, 1851 or 1860) to replace it and from where? Thanks. EDIT: Just realised a shim over the offending area might make for a good patch for now and even the recoil bearing across the frame. Good/bad idea? Last edited by BlackLabsMatter; January 20, 2017 at 04:33 PM.

January 20, 2017, 05:50 PM	#3
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	I have no affiliation with any of these sellers. Just answering your request for steel frame revolver sources. These are all Pietta 1851 Navy .36 pistols (my favorite) except for the first item. Here is a rare find (a used cased Navy Arms Leech & Rigdon replica): it started at $199 (no reserve) and worth a look: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/615003586 The next one is a squareback TG; DGW lists it as available, but the stock picture is of a date code [CM] or earlier with the "tail" grip profile, and I don't believe Pietta made any SB TG models after that date. Check before purchasing: https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4 The rest are round TG pistols: https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4 https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4 https://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...618n53vm47rar4 http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/trad...octbarrel.aspx http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-...el-pietta.html http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoot..._SEQ_567338580 Good luck! Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon Last edited by AKexpat; January 20, 2017 at 06:23 PM.

January 20, 2017, 05:59 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I'd solder a piece of metal into the arbor. Even better, put a bead of weld and then file it down. That would tighten it. Keep the loads light, say 15 gr. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 20, 2017, 06:13 PM	#6
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	^^^^^ +1 Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

January 20, 2017, 06:49 PM	#7
Lee44ShooterCnB Member Join Date: May 13, 2015 Location: Ga. Posts: 68	Gunbroker Check out the seller.....F at top of list....for 2017

January 20, 2017, 04:40 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Some have shimmed them and say it works. Personally I wont go over 15 grains in a brass frame.

January 20, 2017, 09:57 PM	#8
Smokin'Joe Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2010 Posts: 211	A shim can work: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...46#post6177346

January 20, 2017, 09:59 PM	#9
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Quite frankly, from reading several BP forums over the years, you'll likely have less work to do out of the box with a Colt model from Pietta and a Remington model from Uberti. If historical isn't a requirement and find a Ruger Old Army you might be interested in one.

January 20, 2017, 10:33 PM	#10
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	black labs It may be too late to matter this time, but FYI in the future, I believe that some shooters use a filler such as Cream Of Wheat (COW) over the powder/wad and under the ball. That would have allowed you to use the lighter load and might even have been more accurate. It should have kept the loading lever from bottoming out when seating the ball. That may be something you want to do if you shim the cylinder and continue shooting the brass frame '60. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

January 21, 2017, 09:36 AM	#11
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	traditions Traditions makes an ok revolver ( actually they don't make it just sell it) but it is at the low end of the quality of parts scale. Yes it can probably be salvaged but at what cost. You can cut brass shim to place behind the cylinder and glue / solder in. You can have arbor wire tigged to tighten up the slot. Wedges don't have to be much more than finger tight when properly installed none of mine are, but i did my own finishing fit to what I liked. Also I only own steel based models these days. And in most cases 15 to 18 gr would be just fine. But you may want to consider using real bp if you can.

January 21, 2017, 11:14 AM	#12
Jimmya1742 Junior Member Join Date: January 20, 2017 Posts: 3	I have the Dixie Gun Works .36 cal 1860 Sheriff's model and I really like it. Nice shooting gun for the price.

January 21, 2017, 01:43 PM	#13
BlackLabsMatter Member Join Date: December 14, 2016 Posts: 32	Thanks for all the advice. I'll check out the online dealers posted. The arbor is as solid as a rock. It's just that the frame is getting battered. It doesn't really upset nor surprise me. Like I said, this was an opportunity buy at a gun dealer, to see if I liked percussion shooting(I do, a lot). I figured it was a matter of when the frame was gonna wear, not if. The filler is a good idea. I'm thinking I'd be happiest to get a Remington-Beals when a good deal comes up. Though to be honest, I'm really getting used to the Colt pattern. I'd love to get a Ruger Old Army but they're pricier than a Blackhawk. I'm a big fan of their double actions. Never thought after years of shooting centerfire DA revolvers that percussion revolvers would appeal to me. There's something raw and intense about the smoke wagons. The incredibly inexpensive balls and powder has made it my plinking "round" of choice. I'm not a reenactor nor a collector. It's the shooting and the experience of doing it the old way that keeps me interested.

January 21, 2017, 03:18 PM	#14
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Is your gun a Pietta and does it have the water table /stepped cylinder like the 44 cal 1860's have? Can you post a pic? __________________ NRA Life Member

January 21, 2017, 05:06 PM	#15
BlackLabsMatter Member Join Date: December 14, 2016 Posts: 32	The cylinder decreases in radius past the nipples. I still have the box which calls it an "1860". No matter. I don't think it's worth tracking down another frame. I'm going to machine/shim the battered ring around the arbor and get a little more life out of it for now. It IS an odd configuration. I looked to see if a config like this was still made and it doesn't look so. It would be a unique keeper of it wasn't a brasser.

January 22, 2017, 01:11 PM	#16
JACKlangrishe Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2016 Posts: 114	post some pics! I'm curious

January 22, 2017, 02:09 PM	#17
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	If you look around and get lucky you may stumble upon a ROA for under $400 with plenty to choose from under $600, though I've seen auction prices well over $1000. I figure $500 is a fair price for one in good condition.