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Old April 9, 2007, 03:32 PM   #1
TNBulldog
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what's the deal with the 45 colt?

I see a lot of ppl interested in double action revolvers chambered in 45 colt. I'm curious why this is. For a single action I understand as it is as true a wild west gun as you can own. In a modern double action however I'd think a 44 mag would be an obvious choice as 44special ballistics asreclose to 45 colt yet cheaper (at least in my neck of the woods) about $5 a box for the real deal
(not cowboy) and you can still affordably way up the anti w/ the mag loads.

Could someone expound on this for me?
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Old April 9, 2007, 03:54 PM   #2
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<<44special ballistics asre close to 45 colt yet cheaper>>

The problem is that if you shoot 44spl in a 44mag gun they shoot very high, so much so that you often cannot adjust the sights enough to obtain a correct point of impact.

Note how 44spl guns tend to have much taller front sights than 44mag guns.
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Old April 9, 2007, 04:17 PM   #3
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People often like Ruger Redhawks in 45colt because they can be loaded to 480 ruger ballistics. In an N frame Smith it makes an ideal outdoorsman gun in most states thats easier on the ears and gun, plus a joy to shoot. With a good bullet you dont have to push it hard to perform and people appreciate that.
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Old April 9, 2007, 06:25 PM   #4
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If you're buying factory ammo and want economy and choice, I actually like the .38/.357 a lot more than either the .44 Special or the .45 Colt.

It's not clear there's any terminal ballistic advantage to the bigger guys either - at least with standard pressure .45 Colt loads, because .357 drives a bullet of equal sectional density a lot faster than either .44 Special or .45 Colt/standard pressure. It's the only magnum of the 3.

I think if you load your own ammo, a modern .45 Colt would be a very nice platform due to the flexibility though. With the right revolvers, it can be set up for big game, and with judicious mid-weight loadings, I think it'd be a fine defensive chambering (say a 250 grain JHP bullet moving along at 1000-1100fps or so). Plus you still have the more traditional low pressure range available for comfort/cowboy action shooting.
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Old April 9, 2007, 10:00 PM   #5
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I find the 45LC very pleasant to shoot. It's an acurrate defensive round that doesn't kick hard and packs a whallop. I guess a swing out cylinder for faster loading, and DA for faster shooting is what people are after.
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Old April 10, 2007, 12:24 PM   #6
schmeky
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TNBulldog,

My guess is you've never owned anything in 45 Colt.
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Old April 10, 2007, 12:46 PM   #7
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The .45 Colt has a bigger brother much like the others.

.38 Special -> .357 Magnum
.44 Special -> .44 Magnum
.45 Colt -> .454 Casull

If one already has a single action and a lever gun in .45 Colt, a modern double action can make sense. Particularly a .454 Casull DA. The Casull doesn't give up much to the .44 Magnum and the .45 Colt is available in a number of inexpensive loadings. If you reload, so much the better.

The .45 Colt is very flexible for the "roll your own" crowd. Those of us with Dillon SDBs tend to extract as much from those proprietary dies as we can.

I'm on the prowl for a DA .45 but it never much crossed my mind before I got the SA.
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Old April 10, 2007, 02:55 PM   #8
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Jart, I agree with your point so don't get me wrong, BUT...

Quote:
The Casull doesn't give up much to the .44 Magnum
WHAT?!?!

It doesn't give up anything! Take a look:


Hornady .44 Mag 240gr. XTP 1350fps / 971fpe

Hornady .454C 240gr. XTP 1900fps / 1923fpe



Let me see if I can demonstrate this graphically...






.44 Magnum:



.454 Casull:
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Old April 10, 2007, 03:54 PM   #9
K.J.
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I owned a reproduction Remington 1875 in .45 LC for a short time. It was a fun pistol to shoot but I can't see the sense in having a DA revolver in that caliber. If I wanted a DA revolver in the "forty some odd" range I'd go with .45 ACP. It's a proven caliber and it reloads fast using moon clips. Ask Jerry Miculek.
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Old April 10, 2007, 05:12 PM   #10
TNBulldog
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.454 Casull

No, I never owned anything in 45 colt only. I do have a Super Redhawk in 454. I shoot 45 colts in it often. It shoots really accurately as it's got a great trigger action and the heavy SRH frame makes recoil minimal. I've read so much about how a 45 colt's brass is just not intended to be loaded REALLY hot and if that's what you want a jump to the 44 mag or 454 was needed. I got the 454 b/c I wanted the option of both.

As far as the top end 44 mag vs 454, the two biggest loads I've currently got in my house read as follows:

Garrett: 44 mag-330g @ 1,400 fps
Corbon: 454-335g @ 1600 fps/ 1905lbft energy

That is fairly close.
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Old April 10, 2007, 06:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Let me see if I can demonstrate this graphically...
You owe me a new keyboard. Jack and Coke really hurts when it comes out one's nose.

In my area it gives up two things: cost and availability.
I'll grant it doesn't give up anything ballistically.

@TNBulldog - the Redhawk with the "integral with frame barrel" was the one I've been eyeing - just wish it came in something other than a snubby.
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Old April 10, 2007, 06:44 PM   #12
Bg357
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Quote:
As far as the top end 44 mag vs 454, the two biggest loads I've currently got in my house read as follows:

Garrett: 44 mag-330g @ 1,400 fps
Corbon: 454-335g @ 1600 fps/ 1905lbft energy

That is fairly close.
You're not really comparing apples to apples, that Garrett load is +P and can only be used in a few guns. Besides, it only has 1440ft.lbs. of energy so it's still 500 ft.lbs. short in your example.

This might be a more fair comparison:

CorBon 44 Mag - 305 GR. FPPN 1250FPS/1145FTLBS -- 8.375" barrel
CorBon 454Casull - 320 GR. FPPN 1600FPS/1819FTLBS -- 7.5" barrel

Last edited by Bg357; April 10, 2007 at 09:18 PM.
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Old April 10, 2007, 10:34 PM   #13
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Jart:
Quote:
You owe me a new keyboard. Jack and Coke really hurts when it comes out one's nose.
Sorry about your keyboard but you know what they say....


Maybe next time you'll remember to "Drink Responsibly"


Quote:
the Redhawk with the "integral with frame barrel" was the one I've been eyeing - just wish it came in something other than a snubby.
It does come in 7.5" & 9.5", but I'm guessing that you're wanting something between 2.5" and 7.5"

Maybe something like this,

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Old April 11, 2007, 12:51 AM   #14
Gazpacho
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From Buffalo Bore's Website:

Heavy .45 Colt +P: 300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1170 ft. lbs.)
Heavy .44 Magnum: 300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1300 fps / M.E. 1126 ft. lbs.)
.454 Casull: 300 gr. J.F.N.. (1550 fps / M.E. 1600 ft. lbs.)


I thought this might offer a good apples to apples comparison.
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Old April 11, 2007, 01:42 AM   #15
Crosshair
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45 = .454"
44 = .429"

*Redneck voice*
Cause when ya buy a 45, yer gettin a 45. When ya buy a 44, they be lyin. Yer not even gettin a 43, they be shaving off a bit so it's less than a 43. With a 45, they give ya a little bit more so there aint no mistaking yer gettin a 45.

/
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Old April 11, 2007, 09:23 AM   #16
Jart
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Quote:
Maybe something like this,
It pains me to admit it, but I'm swayed by the looks of the thing. The 2.5 "integral with frame" appears different from the "extended frame" on the longer barrels.

Photoshop the 2.5 to a 4" maintaining the vertical section for a full underlug type look and I'd buy it if Ruger made it.
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Old April 11, 2007, 09:36 AM   #17
Mike P. Wagner
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I bought a 45 LC basically because I looked in reloading manuals and there were loads from pussycat all the way to fire-breathing. I knew that I wanted to start reloading when I started shootnig again. I figured I could start out shooting the lighter "Cowboy Action" loads when I was learning how to shoot, and then work my way up as I went along (if I wanted to).

Right now, I am shooting a 200 gr SWC at 900 fps. It's a pussycat in a Blackhawk.

The fact that I could do all of this with one cartridge - not having to swtich between 44 special and 44 magnum (for example), seemd like a good thing to me. I know that the 44 special/44 magnum thing works, but it it seems like maintaining the same overall length gives me one less variable to dink aronud with.

The history aspect is kind of cool, too. I bought an SA revolver to learn how to shoot handguns, and shooting an SA in 45 LC feels right.

Mike
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Old April 11, 2007, 02:49 PM   #18
Bg357
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Quote:
Photoshop the 2.5 to a 4" maintaining the vertical section for a full underlug type look and I'd buy it if Ruger made it.
I actually worked on Photoshopping the Alaskan out to 4" but it was just too much trouble. All the text stamped on the side kept causing problems. I probably spent 30 minutes on this one and it wasn't too difficult.

I'd be more likely to buy the one pictured above because the Alaskan almost looks too blocky already, another 2" of "blockyness" might be a bit much.

I may work on it some more, just because of your keyboard and all...
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Old April 11, 2007, 03:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
The fact that I could do all of this with one cartridge - not having to swtich between 44 special and 44 magnum (for example), seemd like a good thing to me. I know that the 44 special/44 magnum thing works, but it it seems like maintaining the same overall length gives me one less variable to dink aronud with.
Not knocking the .45 Colt, but you can do the same thing with the .44 Magnum, assuming you reload. There's no special rule that says just because you use a magnum case the round has to have magnum power.
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Old April 11, 2007, 04:49 PM   #20
Mike P. Wagner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATW525
Not knocking the .45 Colt, but you can do the same thing with the .44 Magnum, assuming you reload.
When I looked in the realoading manuals I had, I didn't see any 44 magnum loads that were anywhere as near as soft as the 45 Colt Cowboy loads. It looked to me like th 44 magnum had a much narrower "power band". Below those load, they wanted you to use 44 special. I'll check when I go home tonight.

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Old April 11, 2007, 05:47 PM   #21
buck460XVR
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I love shootin' .45 colts in my .460. It's like shootin a pop gun and you can watch the bullets thru the scope going downrange and hitting the target....
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Old April 11, 2007, 07:51 PM   #22
Jart
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Well, isn't that a fine kick in the head...


I didn't know the .460 worked with .45 Colt.

Now I know which revolver I want - the X frame looks like how I think a big old DA should look.
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Old April 11, 2007, 09:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
I love shootin' .45 colts in my .460. It's like shootin a pop gun and you can watch the bullets thru the scope going downrange and hitting the target....
Quote:
I didn't know the .460 worked with .45 Colt.
I'm with you on this Jart. I've not heard that you could do that.
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Old April 11, 2007, 10:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Photoshop the 2.5 to a 4" maintaining the vertical section for a full underlug type look and I'd buy it if Ruger made it.
Like this?



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...3&d=1141691943

I'd buy it too. That's a real quick & dirty job since I don't have photoshop. Something would have to be done about the front sight--as it is, it is far too high.
Quote:
I didn't know the .460 worked with .45 Colt.
The .460 will work with .460, .454 Casull or .45 Colt.

The .454 Casull will work with .454 Casull or .45 Colt.
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Old April 11, 2007, 11:51 PM   #25
CarbineCaleb
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There are these too - in blue (Model 25 Mountain Gun) or stainless (Model 625 Mountain Gun) from the guys in Springfield:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mtngun1.jpg (72.3 KB, 902 views)
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