Vortex on B-14 BMP

SWISS M109 · January 24, 2021, 10:00 AM

Wanted to buy the Axis II Precision, but ended up with the Bergara B-14 BMP in 6.5.
Now, come the scope and I would be grateful for you all's input.
I would like to get the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 MoA. And these are my questions:

a) how about my choice?
b) MoA ok or not? (I am more comfortable with MoA)
c) my dealer put a PicRail on it; should I use it or the pre-drilled holes?
d) am I ok with FFP? Intended use mostly range, with occasional hunting (if no
humping involved :-)
Thank you!

ballisticxlr · January 24, 2021, 11:42 AM

MOA is not awesome for a lot of reasons. Go mil/mil. I'll justify that with facts because opinions are like buttholes.

1. You don't have to "think" in MOA or Mil because nobody in the whole world thinks in angular units of measure, so you don't have to concern yourself with "learning" anything. You plug your numbers into the ballistics calculator and tell it to use mils and bango, you're golden.
2. MOA makes interpolation HARD at long range. Interpolation is what you do when you have data for 700 and 800 yards but not for 768yrds. With MOA as distance grows the differences between 700 and 800yrd (or whatever distances) can start getting into 2 digits on the left of the decimal which is dramatically more difficult to do under pressure and in your head than just 1 digit. With mils, you won't see that kind of stuff until ranges get just absurd and you're needing special rifles and special scopes just to play.
3. If you convert to using meters as well, which is not hard, then you suddenly have an angular unit and a linear unit that are both base-10 and that makes certain bits of math long range shooters have to do sometimes a TON easier.

SWISS M109 · January 24, 2021, 07:49 PM

Thank you much for your input re MOA vs. MIL. I will have to dig a bit deeper. Given that I grew up with the metric system, one would think it's a no brainer. Just in dealing with scopes/shooting, it was always MOA. Anyway, I will clearly reconsider this issue.

Shadow9mm · January 24, 2021, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballisticxlr

MOA is not awesome for a lot of reasons. Go mil/mil. I'll justify that with facts because opinions are like buttholes.

1. You don't have to "think" in MOA or Mil because nobody in the whole world thinks in angular units of measure, so you don't have to concern yourself with "learning" anything. You plug your numbers into the ballistics calculator and tell it to use mils and bango, you're golden.
2. MOA makes interpolation HARD at long range. Interpolation is what you do when you have data for 700 and 800 yards but not for 768yrds. With MOA as distance grows the differences between 700 and 800yrd (or whatever distances) can start getting into 2 digits on the left of the decimal which is dramatically more difficult to do under pressure and in your head than just 1 digit. With mils, you won't see that kind of stuff until ranges get just absurd and you're needing special rifles and special scopes just to play.
3. If you convert to using meters as well, which is not hard, then you suddenly have an angular unit and a linear unit that are both base-10 and that makes certain bits of math long range shooters have to do sometimes a TON easier.

1. MIL, or milliradians represents 1/1,000th of a radian. a Radian is a unit of angle......
1. that's all fine and dandy until you don't have a ballistic calculator and need to do the math in your head...
2. valid point
3. I personally have no plan to use meters in the near future, but the OP has used it in the past so it may be of some value.

As I understand it, both are angular units of measure. MOA is in fractions, MILs is in 10ths or decimal format.

Personally I can do MOA in my head I have done it so long. And if your using a ballistic calculator it would be equally easy to use compared to mils... Honestly I think it comes down to personal preference.

ok the 700-800yd problem vs 768yds for my 30-06
cheat sheet for drop on a 3x5 card in 100yd intervals
700yds 17.56moa, 6.4mrads, 184.4in
800yds 22.01moa, 5.11mrads, 128.7in

I would estimate an additional 3moa, about 60% more for the 68yd increase so 20.56 moa
calculator says 20.53
that means I would be off by 0.03 moa or .23in.... no calculator needed, just a cheat sheet with bullet drops in 100yd intervals...

a) have a vortex good glass
b) I think MOA is fine, personal preference
c)the holes generally are for pic rail, whether is is a small section with 1 slot, or a rail with lots of slots. I would leave the rail in place.
d)FFP is what I prefer. the retical will change size to keep any measurements accurate. SFP scopes if there is BDC or measuring markers they generally only work at max power.

SWISS M109 · January 24, 2021, 10:03 PM

Thank you Shadow9mm, we are getting closer to the nub.
After this input I am leaning toward Mil, PicRail OK.
But a new issue cropped up: FFP good, but not in conjunction with
BDC. Now, do I want any scope with BDC or stay away?

Shadow9mm · January 24, 2021, 10:19 PM

FFP, reticle gets bigger and smaller as you zoom magnification in and out. BDC or marking on the reticle are accurate at all zoom levels, low, high, and in between.
SFT, reticle stays the same size when you zoom in and out. bdc or markings only good at max magnification, not accurate at low or in between.

The Vortex Viper has marking lines in the reticle to measure, Personally I would get FFP as they will be accurate at all magnicifations.

Sodbuster · January 25, 2021, 01:38 AM

If you are more comfortable with MOA I don't know why you wouldn't stay with that. I have the Viper Vortex PST 1-6x24. A great scope. It's SFP and MOA. In the lower power ranges SFP is fine, with the higher power ranges of your scope FFP is good. I chose MOA over MIL because I was more familiar with MOA. Picatinny rails are good. I have no experience with BDC and FFP.

SWISS M109 · January 25, 2021, 09:45 AM

If I am interpreting Sodbuster's post correctly, BDC or other markings work on both
FFP and SFP, but are only accurate with SFP when set at max. magnification.
So, that leaves me with only one piece to finish the puzzle: should I opt for BDC or not?

January 24, 2021, 10:00 AM	#1
SWISS M109 Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2017 Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 14	Vortex on B-14 BMP Wanted to buy the Axis II Precision, but ended up with the Bergara B-14 BMP in 6.5. Now, come the scope and I would be grateful for you all's input. I would like to get the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 MoA. And these are my questions: a) how about my choice? b) MoA ok or not? (I am more comfortable with MoA) c) my dealer put a PicRail on it; should I use it or the pre-drilled holes? d) am I ok with FFP? Intended use mostly range, with occasional hunting (if no humping involved :-) Thank you!

January 24, 2021, 10:19 PM	#6
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	FFP, reticle gets bigger and smaller as you zoom magnification in and out. BDC or marking on the reticle are accurate at all zoom levels, low, high, and in between. SFT, reticle stays the same size when you zoom in and out. bdc or markings only good at max magnification, not accurate at low or in between. The Vortex Viper has marking lines in the reticle to measure, Personally I would get FFP as they will be accurate at all magnicifations. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 25, 2021, 01:38 AM	#7
Sodbuster Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 1999 Location: Wyo-Tana Posts: 1,298	If you are more comfortable with MOA I don't know why you wouldn't stay with that. I have the Viper Vortex PST 1-6x24. A great scope. It's SFP and MOA. In the lower power ranges SFP is fine, with the higher power ranges of your scope FFP is good. I chose MOA over MIL because I was more familiar with MOA. Picatinny rails are good. I have no experience with BDC and FFP. __________________ Remember, many times what we view as a curse in the present turns out to be a blessing in the future. Don't worry about it a lot. Things have a way of working out. Trust me on this one. - - Uncle Bill Martino

January 24, 2021, 11:42 AM	#2
ballisticxlr Member Join Date: April 25, 2020 Posts: 83	MOA is not awesome for a lot of reasons. Go mil/mil. I'll justify that with facts because opinions are like buttholes. 1. You don't have to "think" in MOA or Mil because nobody in the whole world thinks in angular units of measure, so you don't have to concern yourself with "learning" anything. You plug your numbers into the ballistics calculator and tell it to use mils and bango, you're golden. 2. MOA makes interpolation HARD at long range. Interpolation is what you do when you have data for 700 and 800 yards but not for 768yrds. With MOA as distance grows the differences between 700 and 800yrd (or whatever distances) can start getting into 2 digits on the left of the decimal which is dramatically more difficult to do under pressure and in your head than just 1 digit. With mils, you won't see that kind of stuff until ranges get just absurd and you're needing special rifles and special scopes just to play. 3. If you convert to using meters as well, which is not hard, then you suddenly have an angular unit and a linear unit that are both base-10 and that makes certain bits of math long range shooters have to do sometimes a TON easier.

January 24, 2021, 07:49 PM	#3
SWISS M109 Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2017 Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 14	Thank you much for your input re MOA vs. MIL. I will have to dig a bit deeper. Given that I grew up with the metric system, one would think it's a no brainer. Just in dealing with scopes/shooting, it was always MOA. Anyway, I will clearly reconsider this issue.

January 24, 2021, 10:03 PM	#5
SWISS M109 Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2017 Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 14	Thank you Shadow9mm, we are getting closer to the nub. After this input I am leaning toward Mil, PicRail OK. But a new issue cropped up: FFP good, but not in conjunction with BDC. Now, do I want any scope with BDC or stay away?

January 25, 2021, 09:45 AM	#8
SWISS M109 Junior Member Join Date: July 17, 2017 Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 14	If I am interpreting Sodbuster's post correctly, BDC or other markings work on both FFP and SFP, but are only accurate with SFP when set at max. magnification. So, that leaves me with only one piece to finish the puzzle: should I opt for BDC or not?